A tricky question ; is autism really on the rise?

[mysonben]

I've been pondering a bit on that for a while.
I can't make my mind up really.
On one side the numbers are increasing quickly over the last 15 years...
Could it simply be due to better dx? And to the fact that autism is now seen as a vast spectrum these days so more children are being encompassed, included within the spectrum, whether as before only moderate/severe cases were dx as autism ? if that makes any sense.
On the other hand, if the numbers don't add up simply because of better dx, then what is it then? It seems those involved in the research don't really know.

What are your views on that? Thanks.

I think the older fathers stuff has been contradicted now.

(but I doubt any attempt was made to identify the relevant subgroup anyway so fairly meaningless).

I agree about the lots of different types of ASD and how they probably have different causes etc but one point re HFA - I think that this, which does appear to be genetic, could well be on the rise because often like does attract like and the increase of mobility has meant that more people with an "assortment of astictic like traits" are managing to meet up and marry and so possibly combine to produce more HFA in theri children. In the past chances are that these people would not have met as tehy'd not have left their vilages and so either the genes were diluted or not spread.

Pagwatch I am so sorry for offending you (or anyone else for that matter) I must have worded my post badly... well obviously...

I did not mean that I think that MMR has nothing to do with it in any cases. I mean in our case. DS was showing some classic infant symptoms from birth, and was already showing a lot of typical autistic behaviour before the MMR Vac... plus there are 2 cases of ASDs on my side and a possible on his father's side. So for us, it probably is down to genetics but even though I know and see that, I have considered the MMR and wondered "what if's" myself, even though it blatently isn't - for us.

I did not mean to throw around the looking for blame thing nor did I mean to sound as though I was saying that the vacc. has nothing to do with it for anyone else's children. I have heard enough stories and it adds up... BUT I still think that the "milder" cases are rising because of better diagnostic tools (as well as other contributing factors.)

Again, TRULY TRULY sorry for pissing you off. Was not looking for ANY argument or trying to sound dismissive to all the other mums in your shoes, who's DCs regressed following MMR. I was just talking (very badly) from a personal perspective. To say that I have thought it, but I don't believe it true for us.

'I doubt the type of autism which runs in families, and is triggered by effects of multiple genes has changed much - and is simply better recognised.

The type of autism that comes with a whole host of immune conditions though, and doesn't seem to run in families (although other things like MS and type 1 diabetes might) - yes I'm sure that type of autism has increased. '

Thats the bit that fascinates me

we seem to very clearly have both in our famile and I have no idea which is the predominat feature- how could I? research isn't there yet.

On the genetic link side of things, we have a mixed bag in both DH's family with his cousin's boy (HFA),and two nephews with ADHD.
On my side we have severe depression from my dad's side, my is is bi-polar + ocd, one cousin with schizophrenia.
We have food allergies on both sides too.

I googled a bit of material about how depression running in families can increase the incidence of autism too.

There seem to be so many links and possible causes

my ds was diagnosed 1998 the team that diagnosed him said that five years previously they would expect to diagnose 2 children per month. In 1998 they were diagnosing 10 children per month.
My daughter was diagnosed by the exact same team in 2005 and they were diagnosing 10 per week and the numbers are still rising.
The team remains the same, the social demographic remains unchanged, they use the same diagnostic process so the only explanation is that numbers are rising.
Paed at ds's diagnosis said that he would expect each average sized school to have 1 child with autism by the time of dd's diagnosis he had said he expected each class to have 1 child with autism.

elmo

i wrote you a long waffley apology but my computer wiped it...
as computer continues to be eratic

SORRY !

Short but sweet.

For our part I think we're an implosion of things- so many acuses it would have been inescable! DH ahs had severe depression and his aprents have too; I don't have it but again, my aprents have.Auto immune disorders abound, off the top of my hrad- I ahve arthritis and have done since early adulthood, though luckily flare ups severe to cause major impact are rare), Psorisasis, Dh takes daily medicine to keep his IBS under control, boys have eczma, there's a scar disorder I have which may be AI in origin....

then a clear asd history in my family

In dh's OCDs etc....

so a great big implosion, which is why I don't rate ds4's chances of nothingat all- ds1 asd, ds2 at start of dx procedure for what could be add or dyspraxia (scores on tests were 3 above severe concern threashold- and I only answered half, school do the rest!)- ds3 regressive ASD (post MMR- I beleive it triggered something, but think it shared aetiology with the fact that his casein intol was wrongly medicated by GP wiyh an LF formula)... ds4 seems to be NT< good point, but one regression teaches you tyhat eggs cannot be countable. He did havean absence a few days ago like one he ahd in infanthood but scarily it was not like ds3's- wouldn't that be our luck to throw another disorder in the old mix? We've said we will se gP if it happens again as he did have a cold so may have been that.

pagwatch

no don't apologise! there's no need.

Note to self: must learn to read back what I write properly!

Again, sorry too.....

Hi Catking
my son sounds very similar to you. I read your post with interest. I have three sons aged 7, 8 and 9 and the eldest as a HFA/Asp diagnosis BECAUSE I pushed for it from when he was tiny. Everyone said how lovely he is so bright but there was a huge mismatch between his intelligence and his ability to get things in perspective. He did brilliantly at school but at aged 7 was still crying handing over a birthday present and saying why can't I have smoehting of equal value?! From a school poiht of view, the only things he had trouble with were for example passing a letter on to a fill in teacher if the teacher was away because the name on the front was the teacher and the stand in did not have that name so he woulnd't hand it over! Also, if he forgot something, he did not have the skills to say "hey, sorry, I forgot" - he blamed something else. Anyway, up to recently he went to a traditional, academic prep and did brillaintly. To save money we moved all to a village primary which, though excellent, seems to have made him bored, disillusioned and with nothing to do from 3-8pm - he cannot self direct - whereas his prep finished at 7pm and included tea, sports, prep etc and he loved it. Am thinking of returning him to the private sector. Do you know a school called Bruern Abbey? Basically, all kids there have IQ over 120 but all have either dyslecia, dyspraxia or basically do not fit the traditional mould. I am considering this because if we send him back to his old prep, in Yr 5 (his yr) they have startde moving from place to place every lesson etc. and I think he would not continue to thrive there because of this. Organisationjally he is hopeless, academiclly is at the top in every subject. What do you think about this? Similar to you?

and at pipin

Hey, DS2 is 13 now and being older there was much less info around when he was smaller.
I have done the GFCF diet withhim and use vitamins and minerals, plus enzymes to try and support/repair his gut.
He is much more able now than he used to be, obviously he has moved on developmentally a little as he has aged , but he remains severe end of spectrum.

I would love to say I have done more but DAN was out ofthe question when he was smaller and I was not bright enough to do much more than GFCF on my own.

DH is due some time off next year so we may look at going to see a decent DAN in the States but who knows.

You always end up regrettin the things you didn't do - but DS2 is no longer in pain and angry so all things considered..

DD I have known from day 1 there was something 'different' about her. But we have an unusual set of family circumstances crap genetics .

My mum's side of the family - my mum is HFA (undxd but definate) and coeliac with allegies excema and asthma, my uncle, adult dx AS, my nan is coeliac, my younger brother dxd as (and he regressed after 1st MMR).

My dad's side of the family - my Nan has severe uncontrolled epilepsy, my dad was bi-polar, my grandad is suspected as, my grandad's brother is bi-polar.

my DD's father - a twunt not much is known.

My DS2's dad - dxd asd & mld with bi-polar.

ME - suffered depression since age 10, severe uncontrolled epilepsy, had anorexia as a young teen, probable asd tendencies.

What hope did my DC's have??!! I did after much considered thought give all my DC's the MMR, but at much later times than is the norm. 1st dose at 2.5yo, booster a month before start of FT school. For all 3. By which time I already knew DD and DS2 had asd problems.

Hi PipinJo and pagwatch,

I don't have specific knowledge of autism, but have been aware of possible vaccine links for many years. Forgive me if you already know about what I am about to say.

While searching for help with a relative's irritable bowel problem, I stumbled across an interesting diet that may be worth looking at
www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info/autism/autism.htm
and
www.scdiet.org/index.html

Also, I don't know if you are already aware of Jenny McCarthy, partner of the actor Jim Carrey. She believes vaccines caused her son's autism and she has searched for help and found DAN and GFCF etc. She has written best selling New York Times books about what she found out, and there is lots about her on youtube.
www.amazon.co.uk/Louder-Than-Words-Jenny-McCarthy/dp/0553820001
www.amazon.co.uk/Mother-Warriors-Parents-Healing-Against/dp/0452295602/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qi d=1264384233&sr=1-4
www.amazon.co.uk/Healing-Preventing-Autism-Complete-Guide/dp/0525951032/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&q id=1264384233&sr=1-1

PipinJo,
yes you are right. It seems that goat's milk rather than cow's milk is allowed
"SCD legal dairy products made from goat milk are the preferred dairy choice for ASD children who have previously been CF, because problems with casein are most often linked to cow dairy. The twenty four to twenty-nine hour fermentation/incubation period required for making SCD yogurt renders the casein harmless. The casein in SCD goat yogurt is more digestible because the fermentation process helps to denature the casein molecules. Use of goat dairy yogurt and other approved dairy products like cheeses listed in BTVC made with cow milk are optional."

and

"We are challenged daily by parents who are implementing SCD for their ASD children and are extremely reluctant to try any dairy, even lactose free SCD dairy. Yet, those who were formerly on the GF/CF diet can and do reconcile the differences when making the transition between the two diets. Their children are absolutely able to remain strictly gluten and casein free and still follow the SCD diet. The children will still receive a well-balanced diet packed with the essential nutrients.

Let there be no mistake! Since SCD parents started networking with each other, more hesitant parents are trying the goat yogurt and getting positive results. What does happen to those who decide to give their child the SCD goat yogurt? Many are surprised by their child's dramatic improvement.

Yogurt is a remarkable healing food. Trying yogurt is not risky. Gluten can stay in the body for eight months. The denatured casein in our yogurt remains there less than ten days. Also, we are very careful to recommend beginning with an extremely small amount, one eighth of a teaspoon. Again, remember that yogurt and other approved dairy is not mandatory; the decision to try yogurt and/or cheese belongs to parents."

you are right she does seem to allow some cow cheeses. Not sure why this is. She does go onto to say that they are optional.

The above both come from
"http://www.pecanbread.com/new/aboutscd.html

She has written a book about the diet
www.amazon.co.uk/Breaking-Vicious-Cycle-Intestinal-Through/dp/0969276818/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books& qid=1264413486&sr=8-1

What impressed me when I initially stumbled across it, was the clear and detailed explanation in the following journal article.
www.pecanbread.com/gottschall_veritas.pdf

PipinJo,

Reading further in the article
www.pecanbread.com/gottschall_veritas.pdf
where a mother with an autistic son, called Isaiah, describes her experience of the diet, the mother states :

"When Isaiah was exposed to one teaspoon of homemade goat's milk yogurt, he reacted in a very negative fashion. He cried for a dayand a half and was totally miserable, and had loose bowels for two days. This may have been because he was not following the SCD long enough for GI healing to have taken place. The other possibility is that when Isaiah was exposed to the cake and ice cream, we should have started from square one. The lesson in this experience however, proba-bly is that children with ASD should take their time and not start the casein exposure prematurely, or parents may come to the erroneous conclusion that the ?diet does not work.? If the gut is not adequately healed, children on the Autism spectrum may have problems adding in the yogurt."

So, I think that you are right, that it would not be wise for any casein to be included at all, or certainly not during the early stages.

Ds 14 was odd from day one tbh. From his earliest days I used to comment that he didn't seem to know that he was a part of our family because there was no recognition and no interest. He also had severe eczema, severe allergies and anaphylactic shock more than once in a family that had no asthma or eczema, even mildly, which didn't seem to fit.
Dd born exactly 8 years later was the complete opposite. I had no concerns, she laughed and smiled,waved ,clapped and was beginning to talk. She was so different to ds and just like my oldest three who are NT. She had no allergies either so felt we had another NT child.
I decided that the MMR could wait until she was older there was no pressure from the GP in fact she agreed that for peace of mind it was better to wait and see even though I knew the MMR had had no effect on ds.
At almost thirteen months out of the blue dd started making a high pitched wailing noise.I had never heard a noise like it before and dd had never done it even momentarily before. I took her to the GP who did all the checks and established she didn't have any signs of infection or temperature but couldn't explain the noise that she did constantly unless tickled or jogged about.
Took her back two days later because the noise was persisting and GP gave a script for broad spectrun antibiotics reasoning that it was possible she had an infection that was causing her pain.
Three days later the noise stopped and dd had eczema for the first time.When the noise stopped dd had lost all her skills she could no longer wave, talk, smile or clap and was unresponsive.
Took her again to GP who made an urgent referral to ds's paed.In seven days she had seen dd four times once when accompanying me when we discussed MMR and GP had seen and heard her talking and playing and reassured me she was doing well, twice with the noise and the time when she referred on.
I can't think of a reason for the regression I go over and over the days previous looking for clues but there was nothing different. I just know that dd got up one morning fine and five days later she had autism (later diagnosed severe autism) as well as eczema and a change in her bowels.

I generally agree with SWC's take on this

The research about sattic rates btw is on the nas site.

I did read a piece though on the genetics looking at california and the fact that soem AS traits are seen as desitrable in some idustries,so there is a rise in marriages between people on the spectrum,something they think is contributing to a rise in asd generally there.

It may be that as society progresses down a route that is less sociable and where AS people often have some of the traits needed for success,this will increase. What we dont yet know is whetehr that will lead to massive increases across the spectrum or not. We were taught at Uni that having a child with AS does not increase stat risk of having a childwith autism: thats not my experience from both my family and what I have seen generally tbh.

PipinJo,

Unfortunately, it looks like it is only the homemade yogurt

"Yoghurt (commercial) No
Eating commercial yoghurt is not permitted. Com-mercial yoghurt may be used as a starter for making homemade yogurt.

Yoghurt (homemade) Yes
You sterilize the milk by heating it to a simmer, this kills all the existing bacteria in the milk so that it will only be fermented by the starter bacteria culture which we add when the milk has cooled enough. Keep it warm for 24-hours, the starter culture multi-plies and consumes the milk to produce yoghurt."

But I don't really know enough about it. My relative who has IBS doesn't really believe in these type of cures and therefore is not willing to try it. So I have no detailed experience of the diet at all, it just looked interesting when I stumbled across it.