GDD and learning difficulties.

[misscutandstick]

Thought i would start a new thread (didnt want to hyjack another thread) to ask everyones thoughts.

lou stated "I'm really struggling with GDD as a term. Surely GDD means they have LD?"

DS5 is autistic and is also developementally delayed by 2yrs, bringing his physical age of 3.4y to around a development age of 12-18mth. He is non-verbal. He also has some scarring to his brain, suggesting brain injury before actual birth.

HE CAN
sign around 80 signs (mostly nouns, a few verbs)
Picture match
colour match
differentiate between sizes (his lining up of trains tells us this much)
feed himself (will only use spoon, but with unerring accuracy)
do the majority of things a 12-18mth does.

HE doesnt
Help with dressing
'get' danger (but does an average 12-=18mth old?)

Things he does and knows suggests that he does not have traditional 'learning disability', however he has a very great delay in development, is this caused by learning insufficiencies? (obviously not asking for diagnosis-by-pc here )

In YOUR opinion would you say that the delay itself IS a learning difficulty? Or could the delay be a separate issue causing the lack of learning to age related ability?

(to put in perspective, you couldnt teach an average 8y/0 degree level computer programming as they simply arent ready for that level of learning yet. perhaps its the same thing with developmentally delayed children?)

Dunno really, whats YOUR thoughts???

From previous thread = re posting myself !

'I've never really understood the comparison with younger age groups. I could possibly place DS1 around the 2.6 age for most things and maybe a little older for a few things ( He's 5.6) but an NT 2.6 is moving forwards rapidly in all areas - whereas DS1 is crawling along in progress terms. btw, this is not addressed to anyone or their child just an observation."

If someone says to me x is like a 2 year old, I tend to think x is developing/learning like a 2 year old not that x is fixed at 2 years - which never happens in NT development.

On a more positive note, In Unstrange Minds, Roy Grinker argues that the belief that child brain development happens 0-3 years is a cultural belief, not a scientific one and that children can develop higher level skills at later ages.

I agree with you cyber, I find it odd to put a developmental age to my son who varies so much from one life area to another. However occasionally it is helpful for relatives/freinds to explain that ds has the body and interests ( and knowledge of trees)of a nearly 10 year old with the understanding, emotional control and skills (and supervision needs) of a preschool child. This has become moreso as he has got older. He no longer has a Dx of DD now he has acknowledged MLD+ASD+ADHD. I did find the dd label unhelpful especially starting school - I had to explain to the LEA that in his case it meant he had LD, with skill delays. They and school still took a view that it was parental failings (sigh)!!! I understand the theory for not rushing into diagnose when the child is to young for certainty, but suspect it is also used as a stalling tactic!

IME developmental delay is used with pre-schoolers but changes to learning disabilities if the problems persist after school age. Many children with developmental delays catch up, some don't and go on to have mild, moderate or severe learning disabilities.

DS1's pre-school diagnosis was just autism, but his severe learning disabilities are included now (and are probably more of a problem tbh).

" That's what makes it so hard, I think. Labels that make no sense. DD1 has GDD, so why did I have to drag her kicking and screaming from preschool because the glue had been put away? That isn't 'delayed' behaviour. It is SN type obsession.

I find that the label 'GDD' gives a fluffy image of a cute younger child in a slightly different body. The reality is flipping hard work blush sorry, bad day."

Lazy day too

I agree, if a 'label'is wrong or incomplete then it is useless.
Atm, we only have verbal dx of asd for DS from his paed., and SLI verbal dx from his salt, although the sli is written on several reports.

Still when senco goes to see/help DS at nursery she seems to put a lot of his behaviours and delays down to the sli.

i disagree, when ds cannot regocnise and name colours that we have been going over for months now, what does the sli has to do with it?
Same thing with his limited imagination when playing, or him having a hissy fit because he wanted to keep his backpack and cap on when we got to nursery today,... it's senseless.

ds had GDD label but this is now been changed to moderate Learning diffculties in his statement and any offical letters hes 4.2 and is around 2.8 months in most areas he is prgrosseing but at his own pace not a normal level.Though computer wise hes above his age.Verbally he is less than a baby but this is down to Sli and he has double whammy of having some physicla issues that are not linked to his learning diffculties..

Lou are they saying she slot younger as in demstroating toddler behaviour.Its a hard one to call and think they struggle with saying its learning difcutlies when theres other problems they seem think learning diffculties just affect how they learn tradtional things ie colours dress themselves numbers not right across the board

misscutandstick are they sitting on fence with ds5 and wondering if his issues ar emore related to the ASd than the brain damage

SNAP Mrs turnip, ds2 was refered to as GDD,CP & ASD whilst under the care of pre school services.
Once his care swapped to school age services his reports seem to say LD, CP & ASD.

There was no defining moment they just seemed to start using different terminology, it was a gradual thing but i think(??) all his reports now have LD rather than GDD.

In some ways I can see why they do it. It is so hard to predict which children will progress well at pre-school. Children who looked far worse or the same than ds1 at pre-school have absolutely steamed past him and now you would never know they were ever remotely the same.

Also LD's are weird anyway. DS1 has an amazing memory for certain things (far far better than mine) - he leaves me open mouthed at stuff he has remembered fairly often. But yes, he definitely has a learning disability. Unfortunately learning disability is such a negative term, but in part that probably stems from years of not really bothering to even try and educate those with LD's

Thats the thing really, I suppose ds2's development became less obviously delayed & more obviously disordered.
This has only become clear as he has matured albeit in his own haphazard way.

So i guess learning difficulty is more appropriate now than global delay. I also think that a delay suggests that at some point he would catch up with his peers, I think we have all come to accept that this just isn't going to happen.. but nobody could tell when he was born what the outcome would be.

I think both dx were correct at the time!

DD1 is still put down as GDD, but the Consultant has started putting 'Special Educational Needs' on her 'problem list'.

Perhaps im still in the cotton fluffy stage of cuteness - in other words, denial.

If someone told me that their child had brain injury/damage, i would automatically assume there would probably be (at a guess of course) some learning disability in some degree.

Its easy to ignore at the moment, hes: little, smiley, gorgeous, funny, and very loveable. Hes got such a wonderful sunny nature.

We havent really been given any firm labels as yet, GDD and brain injury are as far as the paed goes, all 3 SALTs (and the dietician) take it as given that he is autistic - as do I. It kinda slaps you in the face when hes lining up toys, staring out of his right ear and flapping a lot.

We are also between paeds, his last wonderful one has retired, after 50yrs of doctoring, but he made sure that ALL the tests i wanted doing were completed in time before he left. The next paed, we dont see until November, perhaps she will label him - i feel that we have a root cause of problems now tho, but it would be nice to have it confirmed by professional 'in charge'

Anon, what you say does make sense, totally. Perhaps its easier to see when one is past the initial problems and see the older child and how they have developed.

Sorry. It is fluffy & cute, of course. When DD has such simple solutions to problems, suddenly says "shall we big hug?", etc. It is just when I see the distress and confusion that arises from the simplest every day occurance, that I cry a little.

lou, sorry if ive given the impression that im offended or if indeed I have offended, thats really not what i was trying to convey.

One the one hand: (looking on a bright note for the time being) my youngest has been in the baby stage much longer than any of the others even nearly did.

On the other hand: (looking more realistically long term) being an 18mth old, when hes in an 18yr old body wont quite be so adorable or easy (having to cope with adult situations/decisions), for either of us.

I think what i meant was at the mo i can easily think "when hes bigger/older", its easy to deny right now, dismissing a very probable big problem as "just a little delay" (even tho by 18mths he hadnt made ANY progress in 9mths). Gonna stop rambling, im sure you get what i mean. XX

My daughter has GDD as her 'diagnosis' and we have always looked at is as learning difficulties. IME the gap with her peers has widened as time has passed so the delay has become more and more apparent.

I don't think there is anything wrong in living in the here and now and not thinking about the future.

No offense taken, and glad none given .

Do you all find that it is getting harder and harder to 'see' progress and work out what 'level' your DC is at? DD1's vocab is widening, but I can't see much progress in comprehension & her sentences are still 2-3 words mainly, with some longer ones that she has copied from us.

Attention wise she is still really hit & miss. Mostly miss. Behaviour is still challenging. I had to carry her to the car from preschool today because I couldn't physically get her to put one foot in front of the other while I dragged her along (she was 'dead-weighting'), and go back for her stuff

DD2 is making so much progress day by day that DD1 is going to get completely left behind.

misscutandstick, is your ds making progress? Would you say the gap is widening, closing, or staying the same?

actually thats a really difficult question.

let me think...

never rolled over
sat at 10mths
walked at 15mths
waved and pointed at 12mths (but lost ability)
signed at 12mths (about 3words, but lost ability)
signed again at 2.9y
still has palmar grip at 3.4yrs
cant jump/hop/pedal
understands basic keywords but more than he did a year ago.

I suppose he IS making SOME progress, he can sign more and his understanding is slightly better than it used to be (no where near even basic instruction level yet). At the moment he has about a 2yr delay - whereas a year ago it was probably 18mths. So i guess the gap between his peers is widening.

• its wierd when hes in nursery, theres another 25kids who come when they are called and being told to hang their coats up, scribbling down their names on their cards and sitting for registration. Ive no more luck getting him to do what everyone is doing, than you would expect a 16mth to manage, you simply wouldnt expect it at all.

They each keep asking if hes deaf, explaining that they see me signing to him. WHen i say hes autistic (i kinda havent mentioned brain injury too much, you get pitying looks, its awful) they are surprised that this cute little funny chap full of smiles could be autistic, "oooh but hes a;ways smiling", well perhaps he doesnt know hes supposed to be suffering

actually thats a really difficult question.

let me think...

never rolled over
sat at 10mths
walked at 15mths
waved and pointed at 12mths (but lost ability)
signed at 12mths (about 3words, but lost ability)
signed again at 2.9y
still has palmar grip at 3.4yrs
cant jump/hop/pedal
understands basic keywords but more than he did a year ago.

I suppose he IS making SOME progress, he can sign more and his understanding is slightly better than it used to be (no where near even basic instruction level yet). At the moment he has about a 2yr delay - whereas a year ago it was probably 18mths. So i guess the gap between his peers is widening.

• its wierd when hes in nursery, theres another 25kids who come when they are called and being told to hang their coats up, scribbling down their names on their cards and sitting for registration. Ive no more luck getting him to do what everyone is doing, than you would expect a 16mth to manage, you simply wouldnt expect it at all.

They each keep asking if hes deaf, explaining that they see me signing to him. WHen i say hes autistic (i kinda havent mentioned brain injury too much, you get pitying looks, its awful) they are surprised that this cute little funny chap full of smiles could be autistic, "oooh but hes a;ways smiling", well perhaps he doesnt know hes supposed to be suffering

oops

yes we get the is he deaf when people se the signing and the poor little guy when hesin his chair.

Ds is progressing in some areas but in others no but he is defintley getting left behind when you look at his peers it is so much more obvious now he is in school

he is in ms but they was not sur eif ds was going to follow the Mld or language program as hehas foot in both camps

I was thinking about the progress he is making...

The progress is not the same as an ave child of 3y, or even that of a 16mth old. Its the kind of progress that you wouldnt even notice in an average child because they are progressing in areas that are much more obvious, (language, learning totally new skills like bike riding, 'maturing', more self aware and confident, getting dressed, operating computers, using a camera, playing on a gameboy, understanding a film), rather than the more subtle gentle skills (like getting a chip to stay on a fork, pulling his own blanket up, operating a door handle, manipulating building blocks, having to learn the pincer grip by hand over hand).

So he is making progress but on a completely different level.

On that note: on his (official) second day (hes been going in for 20-30mins most days for over a term) in school he voluntarily sat on the carpet with the others! (ok it was about 10secs, but he chose to do it!), whist it is EXPECTED that ALL the other children will remain there for registration of 10mins. But its a start