Anyone know much about mri scans and what they can/cant show?? also about behaviours associated with memories of abuse etc?

[jennybensmummy]

Brief background. my son is 3 and a half and diagnosed autistic. Before the diagnosis he had an mri scan (at about 2yrs old) to look for anything there that may be causing his problems/differences etc especially for brain damage of any kind due to him being abused by his father as a baby (from about 2 months i think though possibly from birth im unsure until about 5 months though psychologically for a futher 2-3 months while contact was supervised by myself but we had left him. Bens dad was also abusive to me and Ben as a small baby will have witnessed this along with obviously what happened to him, the last time he saw his father he was 7 months old and his dad grabbed him and threatened to kill him in the middle of a cafe (not brightest thing to do!!) and weve not seen him since, i heard from him a couple of times over the phone but nothing ben will have picked up on im sure as that was in the few months after and most likely when he was in bed. Now i was told the mri scan "didnt show anything significant" but this was done at 2 years old though i am waiting for a copy of all bens medical notes at the moment for a different reason so may know more then.

what im hoping someone might know is

• how much can be seen on an mri scan after this time and would it be obvious if he had some damage from this time when he was a baby (he had a black eye at 2 months old amongst other things so was obviously hit hard enough for that)
• also he is very violent, may well just be part of the autism but it is far more extreme than that and once at 2 yrs old i caught him holding a knife to a dolls throat - surely not normal behaviour?? this worries me as this was something that as a baby until 5 months old he witnessed regularly with his father doing that to me. i know he was so young but i wonder if he remembers these things as there are other behaviours i think are not normal for problem behaviours in a child of his age - he is now 3 and a half. he hasnt seen his father since 7 months old so that couldnt be reinforcing any memory if you know waht i mean.

anyone any ideas or am i worrying over nothing??

I cannot imagine what it is like to go through this

The MRI will show damage to the structure of the brain. I don't know how much would be visible of damage that has healed - eg scarring. You woulld need to ask docs.

Different people will think differently about whether he would have memories from his time as a small baby. I am currently reading a book about the healing of memories and the author thinks he will. I am not sure myself. Maybe it is best to talk it over - he has had enough damage inflicted on him for life (and you) and does not need any more.

Do you have a sympathetic GP or a health visitor who talks out of the right orifice?

that book sounds interesting madmouse whats it called please id love to read it. not got a nice gp at all, and hv is leaving on maternity leave, might see what the new one is like and ask her about it see if she can help. we are seeing cahms re his behaviour soon, though not sure how long it will take, maybe they can shed some light on it, but then were seeing their learning disabilities team so not sure if they would deal with things like this or maybe its a different team?!

thats interesting what you say fiofio i wondered that if it could show up more in future, wonder whether to ask for a second mri but not sure how long to leave it til they will, not even got a permanent paed at the moment, so not sure any locum will be interested in helping us, to me i just think there is more to it than just the autism, i know he has probably got adhd too but they wont diagnose that due to his age, but surely violence of this level at such a young age is not normal even in these circumstances or adhd and autism? its just playing on my mind really!

just bumping this up incase madmouse sees it so i can buy the book! and also to see if anyone else has any experience of this at all?

you've both come through a dreadful time.

if it's any consolation, ds scored his baby sister's face with his toddler knife at 2.6 and he has never witnessed any kind of violence before.

so yes, it may be that your ds has been affected by things that he has seen, but it may be that his aggressive impulses are linked to his autism, or are even just a phase.

sorry if not much help, just wanted to share that violent episodes can also come "out of nowhere". hope you both get any support you might need to deal with your difficult experiences.

Jennybensmummy sorry been very absent today. The book is called Healing of Memories by David Seamands - it is a Christian book about a specific type of prayer and counseling that can help you heal traumatic memories apparently. I would not actually recommend it because I have some issues with it biblically/theologically and if you are not a Christian you will find it impossible.

I bought it in the hope it would help me with my own memories but it is not great - but i don't believe in patronising people so you can make up you own mind

I went on training day about issues surrounding this when I was being trained for adoption. We were given notes and book lists. I cannot promise I have kept the files, but let me have a look later and I will come back to you. xx

(NB not info specific to MRI, more to do with MadMouse's kind advice and help)

thanks madmouse might see if can get it cheap on ebay!! im a catholic so will see, but then i dont know about how prayer etc could heal bens memories if he has them as he wont be doing the praying?! might investigate more!

ragged robin, thanks that makes me feel much better maybe it isnt a memory then i dont know its just so uncertain with kids isnt it they cant tell you why they do these things, thanks

thanks pheasant plucker that would be great if you do xx

I don't have any helpful experience except very very tangentially - DD1 was diagnosed with something relatively minor soon after birth. She had all sorts of problems but we had a terrible time trying to get them taken seriously because she already had a diagnosis, and what we were describing didn't tally with the diagnosis. So we had to be wrong. Eventually, MRI (ironically) suggested another, unrelated condition which made sense of the other problems.

My point being that once you have one diagnosis, doctors tend to ascribe everything to that condition and ignore the bits that don't fit. If you have what they call a "dual pathology" - whether organic, like brain damage, or not, like early memories - I think getting the second diagnosis will always be a struggle. So I think you have to keep observing; if they tell you there is no second problem but your instinct tells you otherwise, go with your gut feel.

Pheasantplucker mentioned adoption and I have adopted two children and also been on adoption counseling course. Look at Adoption UK website or other issues on adoption as so many of these children have witnessed violence and been abused. They generally put it down to attachment issues - another good search on google. Attachment disorder and autism are so similar that its hard to say whether an adopted child is autistic or has attachment disorder. Worth looking up as it gives a different perspective, also if you go to CAMHS talk this through. If your child had been adopted, instead of being looked after by a loving mother after your violent relationship ended, I would imagine that most of the problems that would present themselves would be put down to attachment disorder due to abusive family situation. I think lines do get crossed and it's hard to know when one disorder starts and another finishes. Don't know if this helps or even answers any of your questions, also my daughter had a serious brain injury and again the problems are so similar we don't know whether it's the autism, the brain injury or the adoption.

I am really sorry, I can't find those notes anywhere, but agree re checking Adoption UK (possibly BAAF as well?) who should have research available. Sorry I couldn't be more helpful.