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SN children

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Original poster

So what are the differences between HFA and AS and has DS1 got either?

26 replies

bunnyrabbit · 29/04/2009 14:12

Very hazy on DX. Assessment was in Jan with a DX of Social Communication Disorder. DS1 is on the spectrum but at the more able end (still not sure what that means).

He has no LDs and is advanced verbally and very bright (OTs words), immature writing/drawing (although gettting better now he can be bothered), but hasn't shown himself to be a genius at anything just yet (LOL).

He has some Hypermobility which will be assessed in June and a lack of core strength.

So what I'm asking is what are the differences between High Functionaing Autism and Aspergers and does this sound like either?

OP posts:

TotalChaos · 29/04/2009 14:14

main difference between HFA and AS is usually (but not absolutely always) whether a child had any language delay.

Original poster

bunnyrabbit · 29/04/2009 14:16

Ahhh . THank you.

No quite the opposite. Talked early and hasn't shut up since.

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Original poster

bunnyrabbit · 29/04/2009 14:24

Sorry to be a bit slow, but with which is the language delay associated?

OP posts:

amber32002 · 29/04/2009 14:25

Even worse, the experts now aren't sure there really is any such difference as HFA versus AS. It might just all be reclassified as HFA when they redo the main diagnostic lists.

So we'd have low-functioning, medium-functioning and high-functioning, instead of the very weird system we have now where people like Temple Grandin and I (for example) are given different diagnoses even though we do or can't do the same things.

bubblagirl · 29/04/2009 14:25

high functioning autism is the language delay thats my ds he is very bright but has speech delay and atypical speech sounds

amber32002 · 29/04/2009 14:25

language delay would be autism, in theory

bubblagirl · 29/04/2009 14:36

the way i got it told with ds was he wasnt AS as he has language delay its all so complex and complicated as AS and HFA ares o close on the spectrum but this is how they say its divided

sc13 · 29/04/2009 14:49

We were told that they'd rather not tell you where on the spectrum DS might be, because children change so much. Which is fine by me atm, but who knows how that works once he has to start school. Perhaps they'll give him a more definite label later?

Original poster

bunnyrabbit · 29/04/2009 15:24

Thank you all for your comments.

Interesting about the reclassification. I suppose anything that makes diagnosis simpler and enables people to get more helk is good.

It's just so difficult to explain to people that DS1 has a social communication disorder and is on the autistic spectrum. Most peopole just don't comprehend that there is a spectrum. I usually get silence and a blank stare followed by disbelief.

Seems weird saying that DS1 has AS really as he has so few issues compared to most and, as I've said before, I do feel a bit of a fraud sometimes..... but then there are those times (generally when he's lying on the floor freaking out/crying) when I think may be not!!!

Have the SALT coming for our first follow up since the assessment to have a chat and see if we have any questions. She's not going to know what's hit her!!! I have been armed by mumsnet

OP posts:

bubblagirl · 29/04/2009 15:27

good luck with SALT xx

Original poster

bunnyrabbit · 29/04/2009 15:58

Thank you

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daisy5678 · 29/04/2009 17:23

But it's so different between different places and doctors.

J had no language delay really and is bright academically but they still gave an autism dx, not AS, because his behaviour was so severe and he scored so highly on the ADOS test.

Marne · 29/04/2009 18:09

Dd2 is being assesed for ASD, we have been told she may have HFA but they didn't want to dx her yet as her speech may come along [hhm] and then she would be more like AS.

Dd1 has AS, i always thought children with AS are very verbal and children with HFA have speech problems.

Bigpants1 · 29/04/2009 18:36

Hi. Can I just throw something else into the mix? I have ds1 dx AS-hes 13yrs old. He also has ADHD. Ds2 is in the process of assessment for posible ASD, but also has dx of Dyspraxia. From what you describe of immature drawing/painting, Hypermobility and lack of core strength, this fits the picture of Dyspraxia-you are describing my son,(hes almost 11yrs old). The OT is able to dx Dyspraxia, and I would ask to be referred to one to discuss this/rule it in/out. From my own knowledge and seeing threads on MN, it does seem that quite often ASD and Dyspraxia go together,(clumsy choice of word-sorry). This condition is also on the spectrum of ASD/ADHD/DYSPRAXIA.
I think it would perhaps be easier for an umbrella term for these conditions,as many of the symptoms are similar, but present differently.

Original poster

bunnyrabbit · 30/04/2009 09:07

Thanks. DS is very verbal!! Almost incessantly so.

bigpants, what a coincidence. Just been discussing this with another MNer whose son has dyspraxia and she said the exact same thing!!

I think I will ask about this.

Thanks again

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coppertop · 30/04/2009 10:30

My ds1 has a dx of HFA. He too is quite floppy and has problems with fine motor skills and gross motor skills. His language skills are advanced now but at the time of dx they were disordered and delayed.

Ds2 has a dx of AS. He has very good spoken language but still has difficulties with understanding. He has none of the physical difficulties that his brother has.

It's all very confusing.

Original poster

bunnyrabbit · 30/04/2009 11:22

Yes it is. And now DH and I are doubting the DX. Although we know he has some issues he just doesn't have some of the main issues most others' DC seem to have.

No problems with imagination or imaginitive play. No problems with understanding or with reading peoples emotions. I did thnk that maybe he could read emotions, but not understand what other people were really feeling, however, we were watching Dr Who (sad I know) and the Dr was left alone at the end, whilst Rose cuddled her mother. DS1 (almost crying) asked "who is going to cuddle the Dr" which in my mind means he understands something from someone else point of view.

Isn't one of the triad of impairments lack of Social imagination?

The more I look at this the more confused I get.

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nikos · 30/04/2009 12:26

In my non professional opinion,that is social imagination and does show empathy. But that is perhaps why he has had the dx of social communication disorder. He has problems with one 'leg' of the triad of impairments and not the others. So therefore has the diagnosis he has. That's where it all gets a bit hazy I think, perhaps they are saying he is 'spectrumy' but only along one path.
Is he managing without support at school? He sounds quite an able little boy and probably with a little extra help now he will do fine

Original poster

bunnyrabbit · 30/04/2009 14:16

Hi nikos,
They have a IEP for him now so he has 10 mins 1to1 every day, which sometimes involves other children. I get a note everyday to say what they've done. He is doing better at school with turn taking and not taking over and talking all the time, but they still have meltdowns (as we do at home) where he just gets too emotional (excited or upset) and cannot come back down, especially when ending one task/activity and beginning another.

I thought that they had to meet the criteria for all the triads of impairment to be considered on the spectrum? Aaaaaahhhhhhh

Help, I'm drowning in a sea of confusion!

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nikos · 30/04/2009 16:10

So did they actually tell you that he was on the spectrum or did they say social and communication disorder. America seems much more on the ball with giving a variety of dx which reflect that children can be on the spectrum for some things and not for others.

Original poster

bunnyrabbit · 30/04/2009 16:22

They said he had a Social Communication Disorder and was on the spectrum but at the more able end.

Will hopefully get more info from the SALT tonight.

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cherrymonster · 30/04/2009 17:11

i am trying to find out about hfa and as because of ds2. he is 8 in six weeks, already has a dx of dyspraxia, but i think there is more to it. he has meltdowns frequently, hand flaps a lot, and although his speech is, and has always been very good, his understanding isnt. he is a lovely little boy, but has lots of problems. the worst at the moment is his lack of sleep, he has always been an exceptionally early rise, usually any time after 4 45am, but in the last month he has started getting up even earlier, sometimes as early as 3am, and he is then up for the day until he goes to bed at 8pm. this is pretty much constant, if he goes to bed earlier, he will get up earlier, and if he goes to bed later he still gets p at the same time. i could put him to bed at 11pm and he could still be up at 3.

amber32002 · 01/05/2009 07:30

cherrymonster, that sounds exhausting!

Worth asking for another referral, I'd say. Often things only become really clear when they're a bit older.

Original poster

bunnyrabbit · 01/05/2009 08:27

Wow that does sound exhausting. Must be extremely difficult to function on so little sleep

Agree with Amber. You need to chase up. I'm sure other people will comment but from a lot of the posts I have read on here a lot of children with ADHD have trouble with sleep patterns. I assume you've already tried black out blinds etc....

What exactly is a SALT supposed to do? Was very confused by last nights visit. It was almost like she was programmed to give me information wether it be relevant or not. Kept bashing on about visual calendar and social stories helping even though I pointed out the DS has no issues with processing verbal and abstract concepts.

When I mentioned about him not meeting the triad of impairments and the possiblilty of dyspraxia she just banged on about not wanting to give a defiite diagnosis at his age, that they had used ADOS to make the dx and was I questioning it. Then mentioned follow up appointment with the Paed and to discuss it then.

To be honest it was a waste of time. I thnik I know more about it than she did.

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cherrymonster · 02/05/2009 00:09

update on ds2! saw the gp on thursday who agree's that HFA/AS is likely. she has referred him to community paed for an assessment. also am seeing the senco next week and predicting a referral to ed psych. am tending to lean more towards HFA at the moment, it just doesnt seem like AS to me.
bunnyrabbit- they have blackout curtains at their window but i know its not the light, as he is still the same in winter, and from what the OT and his consultant say its definitely not ADHD.

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