Interesting article re differentiating asd from other disorders

[nikos]

Thought this might be of interest to some of you www.icdl.com/distance/webRadio/documents/2-26-2004.pdf
I would so love to be able to get an evaluation from Dr Greenspan and his team.

will need to print this off I think to give it the attention it deserves, but am very impressed indeed with Dr Greenspan and his approach.

Thanks nikos, just read that all the way through. Really interesting, and definitely addresses lots of things I've wondered about with ds (no dx but poss HFA or lang disorder)

That seemed very interesting Nikos. I've only just started to read more about Floortime. Have you used it?

I've got his book on autism which is excellent and helped me to understand ds (HFA) to a much deeper level. It also helps to understand the different degrees of severity with autism and what are the core deficits. Would definitely recommend the book but it is quite a heavy read and I@m reading it for the third time to take it all in.

Which book is it nikos? I have his 'engaging autism' book which I've got about a third of the way through. I find it too much to take in, am having better luck with the online Floortime course running on his site at the moment.

I'd like to clone Dr Greenspan and adopt him as DS' third grandfather. That's one rellie I wouldn't mind coming round all the time.

Yes, it is the Engaging Autism one and agree there is so much meat to it I have to read the book slowly. Great stuff though and which he would come here to do evaluations

"What distinguished the two was the ability for making inferences (which is a high level
of abstract thinking, in other words to come up with a new conclusion to a question or a
new hypothesis), the ability for reciprocal emotional cueing (to enter a back-and-forth
social interaction where you?re reading or responding to another person?s cues and they
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are reading and responding to yours), the ability for high levels of empathy (to be able to
enter someone else?s shoes, so to speak and understand what they are feeling and thinking
and comment on it), and the ability for a deep level of trust and engagement."

I don't understand what the new conclusion or hypothesis for a question means (nb I know what conclusion means ands what hypotheseis means, I don't see how the answer to a question could differ fro mthe one I'd give). Might understand in more straightforward terms.
I don't pick up on non verbal social cues and don't use my hands much or gestures much so would have no idea if others are copying me.
I have very poor empathy skills, but lots of sympathy if someone points thigns out to me
I would never cheat on my DH and am very attached to him so do hsve the latter.

"have" and "things".
I should have pointed out that the intimate physical part of a relationship is difficult for me and I frequently don't realise to give the right response when DH is worried or upset at something, but when he points this out I do try.

The main clinical research groups say that there's never been a full research examination of whether Floortime works well or not, a point that's also made in the main paper about the 200 children that they say benefited from the project.

He clearly knows a lot about autism, and I'd agree that a programme that teaches appropriate behaviour through play is very useful to any child.

Like many therapies and interventions, untested in the long-term. Since it's been around a while, that's rather frustrating. I wonder when they intend to test it fully?

What I like about him is he gets away from the sterotyped looking for classical symptoms of autism. My ds has no repetitive behaviours or stims. But he does lack creativity of thought and pretend play and just generally the at easeness that most people experience in the world. When I read his book I could understand ds better. He talks a lot about going back and helping children on the spectrum to develop steps they might have missed in the course of their development.
I don't think he is necessarily about teaching appropriate behaviour but about building interaction so that the appropriate behaviour is the result.

I suppose it's so interesting 1)because any child would benefit from this approach, it's not in anyway DX dependent and 2)because it's rare to see language delay disorder plus sensory/social behaviour issues considered as possibly separate to ASD.

One of the hardest things I have trying to explain to people without making me sound callous or heartless is that unless I make a very conscious effort or unless it is made very clear to me I do not think about other people, or what other people or doing in relation to me.

I can now see why the consultant doesn't think DD is on the spectrum too. Great article.

I've read this before and find it fascinating. DS2 is generally described as severely autistic, but can read facial cues, anticipate and tease. He is also capable of being very engaged and trusting. I sometimes wonder whether Greenspan would diagnose him as autistic! On the other hand, he was diagnosed by Lorna Wing, who probably knows what she's talking about .

I know that he is very very different from every other autistic child I've met - but perhaps every parent thinks this? I've stopped describing him as autistic to people who don't know him - I say he has learning difficulties or speech delay -because people tended to back off and treat him in a very 'hands off' way when I said he was autistic, which just isn't right for him.

Btw, I have a contact for a Floortime therapist who works in the US most of the year, but is here for the summer months (based in West Country). If anyone's interested, I could pass on her details - she did an assessment at our home last summer and was very good - though sadly she's not Stanley!

Yes,my ds was dx by a paed who trained with Lorna Wing when she was developing the ADOS. Our paed is shortly to retire and I feel verylucky that we got her and got an early dx. I think another less experienced doctor might have left things as ds is quite mild in lots of ways and even our paed said his asd is not 'obvious'.

Now Ds1 is rather unusual in that he will often copy literally everything somebody is doing when they are talking, because he does not distinguish between what are the words and what are the gestures. I do know with him he's not doing it as a form of social interaction, but instead as a means of trying to understand what he is seeing and hearing.
His verbal language is not developed enough yet for a reciprocal conversation. He'll never say what he thinks about something or ask someone else what they think about something, he'll make statements and his questions are along the "what is" and "where are" rather than "why" or "how" style. He does not appear to empathise and infering and abstract questions are beyond him as well at this stage.

good article, which makes me think that ds may be lang delay/disorder + sensory issues rather than autistic.

one thing which i have been mulling over lately is that, despite making a lot of progress with language and shared interaction, ds still often confuses the names of people outwith the immediate family. i had wondered (especially after reading many of amber's posts) if he was finding it difficult to "see" other people. not sure now if he's finding it difficult to recognise the people or just retrieve their names. one to watch, i suppose.

Well, I still don't fully understand the first part with the inference and hypothesis. However, I have re-looked up inference and I must be able to do it to some extent because with my Agatha Christie stories I can place similar characters together and similar murders from a pyschological point of view. And I can get themes in the story, eg themes of jealousy or family ties. But these are stories I have read over and over for more than twenty years, so something has to go in with them.

Dr Greenspan sounds like the kind of doctor all sn children could do with meeting...

thanks for the link nikos, lots of interesting points made - I am so glad of this board and how much I learn from everyone.

TClanger: please don't feel guilty! We all do at some point, but I think you have always done the best you can for your DS. What matters is also that, whatever the dx, you have always sought ways to help him with his difficulties, independently of what the dx was, IYSWIM. The blog you write helps a lot of other people btw