Talk toilet training to me - mild CP and learning/communication difficulties.

[MarmadukeScarlet]

I am desperate to get DS (5 in August) out of nappies during the day, he currently will not tell me even if he had done a poo - although I know he can feel it.

When I ask if he has a done a poo , he just laughs and says no - even if the wiff is overpowering!

He has a 3 week break from shool at Easter, am I fooling myself that I can make a start on it?

My DD 'did' herself so I have no real experience.

Should I put him back into washable for the next few weeks so he gets used to feeling wet?

He doesn't have the co-ordination to get undressed or take himself to the loo, so how do I begin to tackle it?

Pretty please?

what type of CP?

Having been through this recently, the only idea I can think of is - How would he react if you left him half undressed in the bathroom? I found this finally worked with DS1 (4 ASD) as he would then look for and say 'towel, towel' and try to manufacture a nappy/washable for himself. He would have to be willing to stay in the bathroom with toys/books. I could then use this as the sign to rush him to the loo. It all clicked after that.

Have just done this with dd1 at christmas.

She is mostly dry in the day now - haven't tackled poos yet.

We started off using good old reward system for her sitting on the toilet, and then tried to time it so that we could get ehr to the toilet when she needed a wee. dd1 was dry for hours at a time wearing nappies, though, as she has issues drinking, so we knew she was having a wee first thing, then maybe one at lunchtime, and then one late afternoon.

First steps would be to see if you can worrk out regular timings for your ds - does he usually go around the same times?

dd1 actually got the hang of it really well - too well really, as she will now hold on all day, and regulate her drinking to make sure she doesn't need to go

Sorry, had college this evening.

MABS, some Spastic (calves and feet) some Athetoid (affecting his trunk and very low muscle tone in whole body - apart from lower limbs)

Cyber, I will give that a go but he isn't one for being still/in one room.

Silverfrog well done you both! TBH DS isn't motivated by any reward system that I have yet tried, but am going for the 'grab bag' (a bag full of small gifts or treats) approach next - expensive but we'll see! He just isn't into stickers, sweets or anything to the extent that he will put himself out to 'win' it! Was DD showing signs of being aware of when she was wet/needed a wee before you went for it?

Hi MS, my Ds has a similar type of CP but with mild comm issues. I went for a cold turkey approach, day and night at the same time, within a week he was dry at night and only had 1 accident a day, it took about 2 months to be secure but i carried around clothes for about 6. He still does not get much warning but unless he is ill he is clean and dry. I did this at about 3.5 years old and used choc buttons as treats.
He had no idea about whether he needed to go or not before we started buT I set aside the 4 day Easter weekend when DH was around, ceremoniously threw away all nappies and gave him lots and lots to drink. He wore a t shirt and pants only and we must have got through 15 pairs of pants each day for the first 2 days! Each time he started to do a wee I would rush him to the toilet (with seat already there) or potty chair and if any little dribble got in then he got a treat. By day 3 he was starting his wees but holding them till I could get him to the potty/toilet and on day 4 he started telling me in advance (just!) He got lots of praise if he had dry pants throughout the day.
The fact that he had lots to drink gave him lots of opportunity to practise, it was a very full on four days as one of us needed to be watching him like a hawk to catch every wee, and we didn't go anywhere, but it 'broke the back' of it and he got the idea pretty quickly.
I don't know what you think of that, it will be harder to pick up a 5 year old and rush him to the potty/toilet all the time, but it worked for us!
Good luck

dd1 was just beginning to tell us that she had had a wee - "oh, it's all wet"

what we did know (from having to collect urine samples) was that she hated having wet trousers, and that did work in our favour, in that at least she was aware she had done a wee.

dd1 is not motivated by rewards usually either. we used a dvd tht she loves (Singing Hands), and had it ready to go permanently. To start with, we withdrew it for a few days, so she was desperate to watch it, and then we sat her (protesting) on the toilet, then immediately played some of the dvd as a reward. then straight beck to the toilet (still protesting) then another few minutes of dvd. we did this for half an hour or so, to try to make the link between sitting on toilet and her fav dvd. it worked very quickly (dd1 was freaked by the idea of sitting on the toilet - change never a good thing for her), and she was soon asking to sit on the toilet so that she could watch some Singing Hands.

So then we put her into pants and sat her on the toilet whenever she asked (still no wees).

At around lunchtime, we tried to keep her close to the toilet as possible - ideally her sitting on the toilet - while we read/sang songs/etc in the hope of catching a wee.

usually we didn't, and dd1 would hold on until desperate. we have had quite a few successes, but dd1 only wees once a day, so we have a hard time getting the continuity for her. we rewarded every wee, not just those on the toilet, as we want her to get the idea that weeing is god, and holding not necessary.

dd1 has real issues with drinking, so doesn't get enough fluids to wee more often...

within 2 weeks she was reliably dry in the day, as she doesn't like having wet trousers. she has grasped the idea not to wet trousers/pants - we are stil working on the weeing bit! She has never had an accident outside the house, even when we were delayed getting home once - she must have a pelvic floor to die for

she will either hold all day and then have a wee after tea, or if she hasn't drunk enough, she can hold on until she gets her night nappy. Although, she isn't purely waiting for the nappy, as she doesn't wee instantly (or even before she goes to sleep), so it is a case of not drinking enough to feel the need to go. we haven't tackled overnight yet, as she cannot open her door to get to the toilet, and also cannot dress/ndress herself so would need assistance, and I'm not ready for the broken nights yet . Also, she poos first thign in the morning, in her nappy, and we are taking a very slow relaxed approach to toiletting, and haven't got around to tackling poos yet. Small baby steps is our view

Thanks Hairy, he's not that heavy so hopefully rushing him will be manageable! I've found a potty chair (that becomes a step up seat) that is big enough for him - perhaps I'll just get one for every room! I'm impressed with the speed at which you managed it.

We have already talked about getting pants, we are going to go and choose some fun ones together.

It is comforting to me to find someone with a similar DS (DS doesn't actually have LDiffs but his comm issues are very severe and he is very stubborn he has a 'within average range' non verbal IQ) as I've always felt a bit isolated - neither in one camp nor the other iyswim.

Sliverfrog, generally things are fine. School is going really well, he is very happy and settled and they seem to really care about him. His (rather large, old school marm, jolly hockey sticks type) teacher said of him, "His language is getting so much better, sometimes I hear him say things and it almost brings tears to my eyes at how far he has come." RN seems to be going in weekly at the mo, poss to make up for wrong DX previously!

Hope things still well with you?

glad to hear ds is so settled, MS - am in a good way that RN is going in weekly. fantastic news, as long as there is a coherent plan.

dd1 has settled well too, and loves her school. they are being briliant with Statementing too, and have practically re-written it to say what they think she should have, so fingers crossed all comes together soon.

having a bit of a nightmare with dd2 just now - not well, and not keeping meds down, sky high temp etc. poor little thing is jst sitting on me moaning gently whenever I have to move... had to take her to hospital yesterday, as haven't registered with docs yet, and they were a little concerned about her, but hopefully she will pick up soon.

hi we are going through this atm with DD, she is 5 next month and has hemiparesis and ASD.

WE have had to ask for help from CAMHS because everything we have tried has failed altho she will now go and sit on the toilet at school after her dinner and sometimes for us at home after her bath.

we,ve used stickers,reward charts you name it,it works for 2/3 days but then she gets bored and refuses to cooperate.

she also doesnt tell us if her nappy is dirty even though its obvious that it is.

Jenk, perhaps we should hold hands and take the leap together over the Easter period? DS is put on the loo at every nappy change in school, but I've just realised that the one they use for him (for privacy whilst changing nappies etc) is a macerator and the noise really frightens him. So I think Inedd to talk to them about this in case it is putting him off.

Also both upstairs and downstair loo seats are wobbly at home so I need to fix those before we start as this may put him off also.

I need to get him sorted before the puppy arrives as I don't want to be cleaning up puddles all day!

SF, sorry to hear DD2 is poorly. Go to the chemist and get a pack of paracetamol suppositories - you do not need a scrip but they are VVV expensive (£16-18 for 10) but worth it for emergencies with high temps and vomiting. Sorry I cannot remember how old she is - 120mg pack for 1-2 yrs (8-11kg) or 240mg for overs 2s (12-17kg) or you get into having to put 2 in which is expensive and a PITA!.

Good luck, I hope better soon.

Thanks, MS - will stock up when I get to town (and get a working thermometer )

dd2 is picking up a little - still not eating, but is at least keeping fluids down now, and her last lot of calpol stayed down too. She is 2, but tiny, so I think the lower dose will be fine. she is a liittle brighter than yesterday, so hopefully over the worst now

Waitrose had a really good thermometer in recently, a digital one (£10-20) that you can put on the forehead.

I bought the boots one a while back but you had to run it on the forehead over the eyebrow between the timed beebs - to fast/slow and it didn't work so I went back to my ancient ear one!

Good luck.

we've got that boots one too - batteries have run down twice now, and we had the same problems with the speed of movement...

wouldn't have a hope with an inthe ear one - both dds are fiercely protecrtive of their ears

will check in waitrose, thanks

I wrote a long update to this last night (well after 1 am), but I think mumsnet crashed temporarily as I got a 'cannot find page' but had no problem with other sites.

Anyhoo, today was worse. He just cannot tell when he is wet, I left him for a while today each time even taking him outside so the wet got cold. After about 30mins this pm (my resolve is strenghtening) he did get upset and tell me to take off his trews and pants - I really praised him for this!

We had many wet bottoms yesterday and then jubilation as before bed he went to the potty/seat thingy and pulled down pants (I helped) and he told me he wanted a poo - he did one, and a wee, but it was a bit of a wait! We high fived, clapped and cheered.

This am got up took off nappy and he asked to go, did a wee straight away.

I was feeling confident that we had it licked...and then I cannot tell you how many pairs of pants and bottoms we have got through today!

Tell me it will improve and he will be able to tell if he is wet soon, pretty please?

both those successes sound really positive - well done oyur ds!

It WILL improve - he has shown that he knows what to do, and when, and what is expcted of him - more than once! There is no reason that this willnot happen agian.

Having had a good start with dd1, it all went downhill for a bit and she was having daily acccidents. I was despairing, as she semed not to be able to tell when she needed to go - would just stand up and wee suddenly.

then, 3 weeks ago, it all clicke dinto place. She now asks on time, sits and wees. She has not had an accident since.

we came away on holiday at the end of last week (still there now) and she walked inot the rental house, asked to go to the toilet, wee'd straight away, and bobs your uncle. I was

then, yesterday, we were out on an all day trip, stopped to have tea at a restaurant, and she asked ot go. we took her, not thinking that she would do anything (ASD so new situations not good) but blow me she wee'd. Was .

So please don't despair - these things go in phases, and your ds has understood what is going on, but sometimes the processing it into everday life takes a bit longer...

Hello you, mning on holiday, eh? You are truely addicted! I hope you are having fun.

We hadf a poo and wee accident before brekkie, he did try bless him!

We then had a wee and poo in the potty after DD's school run, much cheering and clapping (and a reward from the sticker chart reward bag a charity shop hot wheels but he loves them) one tiny wet patch all morning since then - so pretty good actually.

Am sitting him on every hour and reading him a story so he sits still! Have to take him to the dentist this pm, I hope they are not running too late!

DS did 4 hours in the same pair of pants and trousers this morning!!!

He has had sevel sucessful potty visits today, although it is still me initiating it timewise.

Was dry at the dentist, but then got through 3 pairs of trews in the next hour!

that is good