All-boy families and ASD. Peachy, Jimjams?

[chipmonkey]

I have noticed, time and time again, mainly on MN that families who have children with ASD tend also to be all-boy families. Now, we all know that autism is more common in boys, along with dyslexia, dyspraxia and any other dys- you can think of! But, what I am wondering is: is the incidence of ASD higher in all-boy families than it is in families where, for example there is a boy with ASD who has one, two or three sisters and no brothers.
The reason I am asking is, that in my shallow quest for a daughter, I have come across the theory that a woman who has a diet high in calcium and magnesium is more likely to have a girl, a woman who has a diet high in salt and potassium is more likely to have a boy. I have to emphasise that I don't know how true this is, eating strawberries and cream certainly didn't get me a daughter! (But it was a nice diet! )
I have 4 sons, the eldest two have, respectively, ADD and dyspraxia, so are "on the spectrum" as such. The youngest two are apparently NT but not in school yet ( just turned 4 and 9 months) so perhaps we will have Dx's in the future?
What I am asking, I suppose, is whether my diet/genetics that predispose towards boys, also predispose towards ASD? And whether a change in diet on the mother's part would reduce the risk of ASD? Are there any studies on this?

I don't know very much about how diet is meant to determine gender (or incidence of ASD) but there is another 'method' called Shettles which you may wish to read about if you are ttc a dd.

You say, 'What I am asking, I suppose, is whether my diet/genetics that predispose towards boys...', however gender is determined solely by your dh/dp! All your eggs are female and remain so unless a 'y' chromosome fertilises them. I have read that only 40% of men produce equal numbers of the 'x' and 'y' chromosome and that the remaining 60% of men produce more of one chromosome than the other - which may explain why some families are mainly comprised of all girls or all boys.

Good luck on ttc anyway!

I've heard of the research you mention, about the food you eat determining (possibly) the sex of your baby.
OTOH, I have a little girl just diagnosed with PDD and a little boy who (apart from not walking at 19 mos) appears NT...

HelloCM

Interesting link for me,being as I have a milk intolerance and always lack calcium...

But there'salot of other stuf fout there as well. Lots of research (or rather lots of suggestions of research)about high testosterone levels in women and asd, and also some study about the more brothers your dp has then the more you arelikely to have only bboys- three types apaprently: girl likely / equal / boy likely.

My dh has a brother.

I think that's important research as it palces the thing firmly back at the male side: whilst we know that sex is determined by the sperm (wellmore complex but) the tales seem to still favour a blame the woman approach: lots of that in the Eastern cultures,although of course we'd be the ones they'd be after, the boy producers.

I am certain I am built to have boys, and IIRC JimJams wrote something vaguely similar once. I'm not exactly frilly for all i'd like a daughter- never bothered with dolls, had a garage. I turned the Barbie house into a brothel actually .

I think dietary stuff is big after birth regardless of gender- asd'scertainly seem to need a trigger(sometimes prenatal). Quite a few people beleive casein (in dairy) and guten are sometimes involved in this. Bas is certainly free of both. But I know of nothing pre birth diet wise that would change it- if its anything like asd's(and I would guess it is) then I think you'dprobably get a genetic chance at birth and then that will either trigger or not. In most cases anyway.

So Bas has a GF / CF diet, goes to baby signing to focus on communication, doesn't watch TV, even things with nolink I know of such as vit K orally LOL(because ds2 had oralthe other 2 jab). He'll have separate jabs, gets omega and will take supplemnts and after that- I shall have done my best if he gets it.

Oh the research that is out there suggest doesn't it that the way it works with females is that certain factors- eg CM- can inhibit say female sperm,and things such as date of conception as well(allmine were conceived on ovulation as per the boy theory- we tried for ages following the for a girlrules, gave up and I was pg the next month).

Oh, I am not ttc any more! Think dh would run for the hills! And threw Shettles and Hazel Chesterman Phillips into the bin after ds4!
And maybe I notice the all-boy families with ASD because they are families like mine, maybe I am just self-obsessed!

I often wonder about this, in a vague and totally non-scientific way, because I had two m/cs before DS1 and always wonder if they were girls and I somehow couldn't carry them to term.

And I eat far too much salt and don't like milk much!!

Jimjams here:

Genetics wise a multiplex family is one with more than one child with autism. In those families mothers and/or fathers often have the broader autism phenotype ie tendencies. Families with more than one boy, but only one child with autism (e.g. mine) are known as 'simplex' families don't show this pattern, which suggests a different pattern of inheritance.

Simplex autism may be more affected by environmental triggers than multiplex - which may well be the additive effect of many genes.

That's interesting, Jimjams. My younger dsis has SN's which I really believe are a form of autism though she was never diagnosed as ASD. My brother, I'm sure has ADD and dh ( software engineer of course) and his brothers all seemed to have difficulties in school. Even in those days, one of their school principles wanted them assessed by an Ed Psych but MIL went mad when she heard the work "psychologist" and refused all assessments! As adults they all educated themselves to degree level, though.

I once read (years ago) that bossy women had only boys. I've got three boys . Middle one has ASD.

I do think though that the reason I've had boys, is due to having PCOS, which makes more testosterone in the body than other women have. Look at Victoria Beckham for example, she has the same thing, and three boys.

Now, I am sooo not bossy! Anyone and his mother can boss me around!

remember gender is determined by the man though!

I knew gender is determined by the man

That blows my PCOS theory out the window

you learn something new every day-i have a multiplex family.(i would say hubby defo has broader autism tendencies-not that he agrees, so hope he never sees this post).We have 6 children-3 of each.two of the boys have ASD,(and 1 of them has ADHD, and the other Dyspraxia).But, my youngest-a girl of 3, well wouldnt be surprised if she isnt one day also dx somewhere on the spectrum.Dont know where i stand on environmental triggers, but really dont think diet of either child or mother predisposes you more to ASD.(certainly can see how certain additives may excerbate things like hyperactivity, but not cause it.)I do know both Autism and ADHD are classified as Mental Disorders-DSM IV(double checked with Mental Welfare Comission, so these disorders are connected to the hard-wiring of the brain,and how it develops in the womb. In that sense, its hard to see how diet can play a part, but research is on-going, so perhaps we will all know one day.

I definitely have the asd tendencies here, as do my Mum and Grandad.

5inabed it doesn't entirely blow your theory but there'sno evidence that In know of- is women with high testosterione / only ate pink pansies / enjoyed windsurfing / insert ransdom criteria of choice) had bodies that created a hostile environment for the sperm it is possible that would favour a specific gender. There's a lot of speculation on this but as far as I am aware no research.

I suppose agin diet would only work if it triggered a rewire at embryonic stahe- not imposisible as you could be ingesting something with toxin or other properties which potentially is no different than ingesting drugs which we all know can cause effects. Mercury in tuna was the big idea wasn't it?I ate laods of it when expecting ds3, blissfully unaware of any risk. Hey ho, you have to stopfeeling guilty about things you had no knowledge of.

Well there's quite a lot known about the gut brain connection and autism now (and a lot more not known). A lot of those affects will be postnatal though. I think there is quite a lot of evidence that diet can play a causal role in autism- although probably postnatally and of course only in some cases. (Rather like type 1 diabetes which it is known can be triggered by certain protein molecules).

Recommend googling Derrick MacFabe and watching some of his videos/reading some of his papers if interested in gut brain connections and autism.

Most of the research on antenatal effects tends to point to viruses priming the immune response in the fetus which then given exposure to a later trigger at a critical time developmentally (eg 15 months) can trigger and autism developmental pathway. Think that's more relevant to simplex families though.

Can someone explain environmental triggers to me please? What does this actually mean? ds1 started with symptoms at around 19 months, straight after we returned from a long haul holiday. The timing may well be coincidental but for a while I was convinced that something on the holiday had triggered his behavioural change. I may be well off track here.. but we fit the "simplex" model and I was wondering..

and mrsturnip/jimjams - brief hijack to say I'm glad you're still around!

BTW, I do actually realise my OP wasn't very intelligent! Dh and I had gone out for a meal and then rather unwisely to the pub afterwards and and of course under the influence I always manage to think I have hit on some profound solution to something!

Sorry kettlechip X posts with you. I am nothing like the expert jimjams is but it is known that a lot of children with autism have characteristic gut changes not found in NT children. Oddly enough, we brought ds1 away on holiday at 16 months. Before that, he had an excellent appetite but while on holiday we had difficulty finding any food that he liked to eat and he continued to eat very little after we returned. I was at the end of my tether with him at one point, he would barely touch his meals and fill up on loads of milk. And this was over a year after that holiday! But then, I thought that perhaps it was just paranoia on my part as a lot of toddlers go through a phase of not eating and maybe I was just blaming the holiday for something that would have happened anyway.

Autism (high functioning) and ADHD run all through my dad's family. In the last 3 generations, various women have had many miscarriages and then produced multiple boys. There are hardly any girls in my family - basically me and my sister (aspergers) and 2 cousins. The rest of those 3 generations are all boys/ men (and most are very very spectrummy and also very very clever).

I have never had a MC, though, Thank God, just a row of boys!

Hmmm. I had 2 boys, both autistic and I've been a cheese addict most of my life.

I have several friends with all boy families and all the boys are neurotypical.

I can say for certain that autism runs in my family and affects most of the males down a particular line (though it didn't totally miss me, either). There are a few past and ongoing studies that find autism running in families, plus those that find it to be prevalent in families where there is a strong history of mental illness and various neurological disorders.

keetlechip- regression and an external trigger is more likely in simplex families (although that is an oversimplification in itself).

I really recommend Derrick MacFabe's stuff. This video gives a really good overview of current biomed type theories of autism:
www.autismcanada.org/storygreen.htm

There's no one autism (there are many routes to becoming autistic, and many different conditions labelled 'autism') but that video gives a good round up of the sorts of things that are believed to be going on. His work is very relevant for regression & gut problems, but he talks about work by other groups as well.

Yes, as MrsT says it really is complex- we'reafamily of asd types but ds3 regressed nonethless fitting into no pattern.

It's also ahrd (IMO) to spot ASD fors ure when a parent ahs asd.What I mean is.... is my total inability to talk to the mums at school because of my own traits or because my clearly asd mum never taught me how to talk to people (dont think I ever saw her chat socially to anyone)? Aremy traits linked to my casein allergy... bt then Mum doesn't ahve that.... but she had depression for years...

Ithink in many famillies the picture is too complex torelaible ascertain but its like a jigsaw puzzle and one day they'll get it (although 'it' may well be an agreement that rarely are two famillies identical in the aetiology of ASD!).

Cm of course it was intelligent, dont put yourself down.

I haven't read the whole thread, but ages ago I read a really interesting article in New Scientist discussing the idea that women do influence the sex of their own children (unintentionally I mean). They discussed various possible mechanisms. One of the things mentioned was the thing that if you have a longer ring finger than index finger you would be more likely to have boys - it sounds a bit old wives tale but I think it does have a scientific basis in that it's related to testosterone levels. I can't remember the mechanism though. I have also heard the idea tossed about that levels of testosterone in the womb may influence the likelihood of a baby having autism. So I wonder if there's a link there.