How much force would you use to get a child into school who doesn't want to go (she's almost 9)

[Wills]

dd1 is rapidly heading towards school refusal (think that's the technical term for it). She's done it before at a previous school hence how I learnt it. This is school is trying hard but although they seem really great to me its not making the necessary difference and we have all the rumblings of school refusal again. This morning she refused for 40minutes to get dressed until various promises from me got her dressed and into the car. Last time at this school I actually manhandled her into the car and then when I couldn't get her out went and got a teacher at the school to help me get her out. They seem to think that I should use everything I can think of to get her into the actual school. But I'm running out of ideas and I can't continue to physically manhandle her as she's getting too big for me.

Interested to read any responses. I have this problem on occasions with my DS (5, ASD). I also get refusal to walk home. Fortunately I live close to school, and thus far have manhandled/dragged him there but I cannot imagine continuing this much longer as he is heavy and strong.

I am focussing on the reasons for the refusal and tackling those, but sometimes the triggers are unavoidable.

His TA has told me to call and she will meet us at home if i cannotget him there, but I've never yet reached that point!

Its difficult isn't it. I really am not sure what to do.!

I had this with DS but at a much younger age. I will never forget having to get 3 teachers who took him off me and carried him into school kicking and screaming. Don't know what I would do now as he is too big but Ed Psych told me she would advocate taking him out of school for a couple of days when things get too much for him. Have not done this yet - worry would be would it be harder to get him to go back after this. Once when DH took him to school ds
created merry hell but it was because DH went via the wrong route & parked in the wrong place

I agree Riven about not forcing a child to school. However it is a fine line between keeping the routine of school, and setting the precedent that we stay at home. If the level of refusal continued once in school I would have to think seriously about withdrawing from school. School can and do turn things around though.

This is a problem that an only be helped in partnership with school, to identify triggers and work through them consistently together.

Wills, can you identify the trigger factors involved? has anything changed recently?

Yes, unfortunately alot of schools are not good with SN. Some are though, and given the chance they can help. When school can't/are unwilling to help then other options obviously need to be considered.

How is she with coming out of school? just wondering if it might be an issue with any transition rather than with the school?

Mondays are far worse than Fridays TC so I think she finds the transition from the weekend to a school day hard. BUT there is a whole loads of things happening. She's discovering herself so to speak. In the last 2 years she's found it increasingly harder to keep friendships. She's Aspergic and at the recent SALT diagnosis they were particularly critical of her social ineptness. I think the problem is that she has an amazing imagination and when entering a new social circle i.e. starting a new school many children flock to her side because of the fun games she organises (albeit ALL around horses and ALL under her very exacting standards and rules . Thus after a few weeks the friends gradually want to play with other people and do other things and of course she percieves this as not liking her (which also is not true as everytime we do walk in other children wave at her and call out to grab her attention). But she is definitely noticing that whilst she has them all "under control" at the beginning that they don't stay like that. So in the end she becomes very very down.

Ah, horses, yes.

Hell, I was obsessed with horses, er...umm....all my life (still am). Not that this will cheer you up, of course.

She needs social stories to explain how groups of people behave so that she doesn't keep expecting miracles of them staying involved, I guess. Is the local autism charity able to help with some social skills training, or would the school consider it?

But there's another issue here - at playtimes, she's organising something with rules probably because without it, play time is absolutely horrific for her. Just noise, chaos, fear, uncertainty. Is there something else she can usefully do during those breaktimes? A task, a job? The school may have to think laterally on this one?

im with Riven on this one, i couldnt force DS into school when he refused,he spent 2 years at home with me, i still feel guilty for not realising what was going on,he was bullied quite physically.

i dont really know what to suggest cos i took
DS out straightaway,i no if i had tried to manhandle him into school he would have attacked me and it would have defeated the purpose.

sorry you are going through this,i understand the pressure.

Hi, just like to thank everyone for making me feel really guilty. I have forced my child to go to school for the last 5 year. DS is 8 next week. I have had all the battles, the violence, tricking him into going to school, taking him myself, sending him on the bus with his pjs on, taking him myself in his nappy from the night before. The list is endless. I thought I would look for advice to find everyone not liking force. I also don't like to force him but he must go to school. He does have school phobia, social anxiety, DS, SPD, SLD among other problems. I do know he doesn't like school and have video footage of him at school to show me when he is there he is enjoying himself. However the teachers aren't picking up on his needs, although a few times he clearly asks for help. He is in a special needs school.

Sorry to het up feeling crap forgot to mention at one point of me taking him into school, 3 members of staff including the head still also couldn't get him from my car. He was kicking and hitting them also. So he was out of school nearly a month. Mind the change in him was fantastic. I still had my usually problems but a few of his other problems dropped and his attitude changed. Then the behaviour team got involved and got him back in school, although hes still not happy and is looking for his way out.

Have you come across the book Can't Go Won't Go: An Alternative Approach to School Refusal by Mike Fortune-Wood?

Synopsis
School refusal, sometimes called 'school phobia', is a complex and often contentious issue affecting rising numbers of children. Coping with this issue can tear families apart and leave lasting affects on children. In "Can't Go, Won't Go" Mike Fortune-Wood looks at the scale of the problem and how families are treated by a range of statutory authorities.Interspersed with moving accounts from families who have struggled with school refusal, sometimes over a decade or more, this important and ground-breaking book sign-posts the need for better communication and strategies from service providers from schools to psychologists. It suggests that the current trend to either medicalise or demonise children who refuse to go to school will only add to society's problems as well as damaging the individuals concerned. Fortune-Wood goes on to document an alternative approach; that of removing children from school to home educate them, suggesting that far from leading to disaster (as professionals often predict) this can become a life enhancing decission.

This is the best kind of engaged research; full of information and meticulous in its willingness to analyse a problem fully, but also humane and helpful.

Hu Julie, I have tried to borrow this book from libraries etc to no avail. Although I have read something similar. When using quotes from the book which could of been applied to my son I was more or less told I don't know what I am talking about and how wrong i am about him not liking school. No one is willing to look at the reason as to why he doesn't like school. Do you know of any one who may be able to loan this to me. Thanks.

What about joining the Home Education Special Needs email support groupdevientenigma?
I am sure folks there will be able to give support and advice -and one of them may have the book for you to borrow.
Even if you don't I am certain you will find others who have been in exactly the place you find yourself in now.

I'm not convinced home educating dd1 is at all the answer to my problem although I'm happy that it may be for others. dd1 will not do any form of what she percieves as school work at home. Any attempt however subtle or hidden results in either her completely ignoring you or in her getting very distressed very quickly and that involves violence and screaming. Also I would like dd1 to eventually learn to socialise in the "normal" world and I do feel that a school is a really good solution for this.

I just have the "minor" problem of actually getting her in there

Hi Wills, we also tried a picture timetable with photos of breakfast, clothes then taxi.
Then at each stage of the timetable the stage was broken down to a set of picture instructions. This way he was meant to know what happens next and how we do it.

Hi Julie, Thanks for that.

We also added therapies inbetween for his SPD to help him stay calmer and more focused.Things like spinning, kicking a ball, squashing him etc.

Wills
I believe totally in a parent being the best person to make the choice of what is right for their family -I am not trying to convince you otherwise. Home Education is not right for everychild, as school education is not.

However home education doesn't have to be about teaching at all.
My children had had such a horrendous time at school, that like yours anything remotely schooly did send them into screaming hysterics-especially for my youngest.

Luckily we found out that there is another way, where you follow your child's interests totally.
We didn't do any formal work at all-ever, until the children were ready which happened in their later teenage years. Instead we went for long walks, visited art galleries/workshops/museums/theatres, we went on home ed group workshops and most of all we talked and talked and talked.
The children used the computer when they wanted and watched TV/DVDs. We talked together about all sorts of things that interested them.

In the first year I leaned a lot about Warhammer/Computer games/sailing/World War2 and even what a Roman Soldier wipes his bottom on (the last from a re-enactment workshop with our local home ed group, the children dressed as Roman Soldiers and had a mock battle with a Celtic army.)

In short I would say that our children have learned through living life and following their interests. We haven't tried to separate their education and their every day life.

Maths is covered by working how much paint is needed to redecorate a bigger bedroom and older sister has moved out from for example.
DD2 found a role of paper she liked in the bargain bin for £1. Grandmas showed her how to put it up. DD2 worked out that that then left more in her budget for a nicer paint for the woodwork and a rug she liked, off Ebay for the floor.
The map of the World on the bathroom wall, seems to be studied when tooth brushing etc it seems and has led to questions about world politics/geographical boundaries and an interest in the Arctic and Antarctic.

Home educating in this way has led the children to a standard where they could be successful in attaining A levels and in the case of our youngest, doing OU courses. She will most probably do her whole degree this way. Other children have found success in ways that suit them too. As a family we have been thrilled with this type of education, and have no regrets.

There is a short article comparing formal and informal home based education that you may find interesting.
The author Professor Alan Thomas has researched this type of learning further and his latest book How Children Learn at Homeis well worth a read.

I hope you find an answer and the right type of support for you and your child soon Wills