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Original poster

Hand flapping & other things. Explanation needed, please....

39 replies

lou031205 · 06/02/2009 16:19

I'd really like some help with two things, please

1.The consultant always asks if DD 'handflaps' and we have always said no. However after the last consultation (and co-inciding with starting Epilim, oddly) in early January, she has started flapping her hands when she is upset. Today she has been flapping them in my face, hurting me.

Is hand flapping always concerning, or is it normal in a child who is upset? What is concerning about it? Why does he ask?

  1. After her latest meltdown, I asked DD if we should have hug to make it all better. She said yes. Then she spontaneously put her head on my lap and said "Sorry Mummy". I was so chuffed that I said "Miliie! You said sorry! That made Mummy so happy" and gave her another hug. Then DD repeated the sequence (putting head on lap and sorry) three times in a row.

Why? Did she think thst she liked the hug so did the same thing again? Why didn't she just hug me? I'm confused.

OP posts:
Original poster
lou031205 · 19/02/2009 09:13

Hi everyone,

Well we went to see the consultant. DD was a little more resistant to going to his room, and very resistant to leaving, so she displayed a little more of her usual self.

She wanted bubbles and when the Cons said he didn't have any she wasn't pleased. Throughout the appt. she asked for the bubbles.

He says he is sure she is still having seizure activity, so has increased her Epilim.

On the subject of ASD, he said that huge development takes place between 2-3, and some children with ASD features will resolve them by 3. There are also some children who go on to develop more traits between 3-5. He feels that because she likes to engage adults, has eye contact and so on are very 'positive' signs, and he says that he can't say she is on the spectrum. Having said that, he went on to say that he can't exclude it completely either. He wants to just wait & see, with priority getting her the OT/physio/SALT input over time. He also seemed reassured by the fact that SALT felt she was delayed rather than disordered.

It is so hard to get across how she is. He sees a different child. It sounds so stupid saying "she just HAD to have the carrot...." Or trying to explain how 'formulaic' she is with things. She can't understand that if she says "x" and "y", I sometimes say no to "z", when other times she says "x" and "y" and I say yes to "z".

Alfiemama I really appreciate your offer. I wouldn't want you to do anything that makes you uncomfortable, however. DD tends to flap her hands up and down like floppy wrists, when she is cross or upset. Does that sound like hand flapping with ASD, or is it different? I did look on youtube, and the video I found had a little boy who 'circled' his hands. Very different from DD.

OP posts:
Original poster
lou031205 · 19/02/2009 09:13

Forgot to say, he took us seriously re: sleep, and prescribed melatonin, so that is one battle fought and one, relatively easily!

OP posts:
alfiemama · 19/02/2009 10:15

Its ok Lou, I dont mind, just wont leave it on for long, Im sure it will give you an idea. I will have a go at getting it on here for you today.

He kind of does it from his wrists, strange really if you really watch him, its like a flick.

Original poster
lou031205 · 19/02/2009 10:28

Thank you alfiemama

OP posts:
notfromaroundhere · 19/02/2009 11:25

Its good that there is a proactive approach about getting your DD the therapies she needs and that getting the epilepsy under control is the A1 priority. I imagine you are still left wondering what "it" is and whether there is a specific cause or if "it" will resolve with time.

FWIW when DS1 saw the community Paed at the run up to his big assessment she said she saw no traits, he engaged with her, made eye contact etc but she did say that the "fringes of the spectrum" wouldn't be picked up in such an appointment which is why DS1 was having the multi-disciplinary and ADOS assessment. Again when we saw the specialist nursery-nurse for his assesment for a development nursery place she echoed the same that she saw no traits and they would rather wait and see than give an ASD DX at just turned 3. So I went into the assessment thinking there would be no DX made and I was quite floored when we got one. We had been in the system for about 18 months by the time we got a DX.

Anyway enough of my waffle LOL, I hope your DD gets all the help she needs.

Original poster
lou031205 · 19/02/2009 11:31

That is helpful, notfromaroundhere. Tough day today. I'm exhausted. DD1 has the concentration span of a goldfish, and DD2 wants to be cuddled all day long. I'm 31 weeks pregnant, and just can't cope.

DD1 has dipped clothing in her potty, had many meltdowns, and I ended up screaming in frustration . Now DD1 is saying "what happened?" "Oh sorry". "Mummy no want to cross, mummy no want to sad, mummy want happy" which in itself makes me want to cry...

OP posts:
alfiemama · 19/02/2009 11:55

Ok, I hope this works, Im really sorry its on its side, cant fathom out how to flip it on the photobucket.

This is Alfie playing wii golf

s173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/alfiemama/?action=view¤t=PICT0704.flv

alfiemama · 19/02/2009 11:55

oops try again

alfiemama · 19/02/2009 11:56

s173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/alfiemama/?action=view&current=PICT0704.flv

notfromaroundhere · 19/02/2009 12:07

Sorry you're having a tough day it must be hard going when your 31 weeks pregnant added into the mix. I had a similar exchange with DS1 yesterday and I felt dreadful when his main concern was me being happy.

I hope the afternoon picks up for you.

Original poster
lou031205 · 19/02/2009 15:03

Alfiemama - thank you, that really is helpful. Your DS looks lovely

The hand flapping I've observed in DD is always when she is very upset, and is much more out in front, like doggy paddle, and very fast. Like when a toddler throws a tantrum on the floor and kicks their legs, but with her arms. Perhaps it is just frustration.

Notfromaroundhere - thanks, my new homestart volunteer is here, so a precious hour or two of R&R.

OP posts:
Bigpants1 · 19/02/2009 18:11

hi. Alfiemama, what a cutie. just watched clip and it was like watching my son- he does exactly the same when he plays Wii, X-box and play station, his whole face kind of contorts as well. thankyou for sharing your little boy with us.

alfiemama · 19/02/2009 18:28

Hi everyone, its ok, sorry about hubby's chest, it was on the spare of the moment I filmed it. I thought I could take the paed when it goes to panel.

I will leave it a little longer for anyone else, think its good to see as Im sure it is a stim and nothing else. Sometimes its like their going to take off isnt it Bigpants.

Last night my husband said he was holding him and it was like he was spasming, and was electrically charged, he said he could feel it in his fingers, as they where round his neck, weird.

Lou not sure about the doggy paddle, and to be honest Alfie normally does this when excited, when he is upset he shakes and puts his hands over his ears.
Some of the traits you have mentioned though do sound

leighlm · 02/03/2009 21:58

Hi, my son who is 9, has just been diagnosed with ASD syndrome, he spins around, flaps his hands, wipes his nose, shakes his head. we waited 2 yrs to see a specalised consultant at great ormund street hospital, who gave us diagnosis, our local drs never did diagnose him because he is very loving and gives good eye contact, but all along i new he was different from the other kids, he has no friends, makes up weird storys, and loses his temper, and also has obbsesive behaviours. now he has a statment in school were he recieves 1.1 support which has done him the world of good,
he is very hard work at home as i also have a daughter millie, whom gets really frustrated as we do everything he wants to keep the piece..

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