Please help...those who have been in the 'system' a long time....

[Poshpaws]

Does the conflicting advice/reports, pussy-footing professionals, ignoring parents requests and first hand experience get any easier to deal with? .

shouted raised my voice at the area senco yesterday when talking on the phone yesterday. Kinda felt empowering then, now just feel guilty.

I just feel frustrated and angry. DS2(3.5 has been in the 'system' since 2) has been assessed by paed and asd was firmly ruled out, nursery feel he has made progress but has not made as much as they would like (although his key worker assured me he was doing 'fine' now ) . He is one of the 'grey area' children (S/L delay, 1 or 2 asd traits but not fitting the diagnostic criteria for ASD ).

Am cross at the nursery for seeming to mislead me, am cross at area senco because she was there to be cross at and am bloody cross because DS2 seems to be the 'odd' side of normal or the 'normal' side of odd, if that makes any sense.

Arrgghh. Just needed to let off some steam!

at least you are being honest.

TBH if I expect nothing from the professionals other than intermittent box filling cover their arse assessments then anything more is a bonus. area senco was as much use as a chocolate teapot. I think the key thing is to find a school/nursery you have confidence in, so at least you feel that both you as parents and the education setting are working in your child's best interest. DS is also a grey area child - Language delay and supposedly "probably" not on the spectrum.

possibly I could do with vinegar to go with the chip on my shoulder

btw I have found that if I say to DS's NHS SALT - I need help on working with DS on x/y/z I tend to get a reasonably helpful response. I am useless at advising on the political side of things - the delays in even getting to the referral stage with DS embittered me for a long time tbh - for constructive advice - Moondog who posts on here is a SALT and has a DD with language problems, so can see things from both sides of the equation, and has posted lots of useful stuff about dealing with the professionals.

Thanks Riven and TC. Am much calmer this morning.

To be fair, the nursery are not all bad (quite the opposite in fact) but I shall go in on Monday and ask for better communication between us, rather than feeling that a lot is going on 'behind our backs' as such.

-Everything on paper is the secret.
-Articulate calm well composed letters cced to all relevant parties.
-Also attending every meeting with large lever arch file containing copies of everything.
-Being well dressed, calm, taking in a 'representative' to all meetings who sits silently and takes notes (even if it's only your friend's cleaner, they don't know that).
-Complaining through the correct channels wwhich is head of dept./head of directorate/chief exec/community health trust (health) and for education headteacher/area education officer/head of dept./ombudsman.

SNAP also need to be consulted on all health/education matters.

No point in low level verbal grumbling to mates/teacher/salt/SENCO/lollipop lady if you are not going to follow it through.

I do agree with Moondog but even when you do all this it is still very frustrating.

When dealing with the LEA for example, everything takes such a long time. To be honest it doesn't get any better you will just get used to it and find it easier to handle. Getting hold of email addresses is useful too as our SALT responds to these more quickly than phone messages.

We went to a meeting this week at the special school the LEA have offered my daughter a place at in September. Only one problem, as the school will be having building work done their plan is to put Y7 in a small classroom in a mainstream school for 1 year and yes, there was a lot of crying/shouting/angry parents.

Thanks for further replies.

Moondog, I am not someone who would not follow things through and many times in my professional capacity I have had to do just that, so don't worry, I'll certainly be doing it for my son.

I shall still, however, offload to those who know me (and MN) in order to release any pent up annoyance so that I can be the epitome of calm in meetings/assesments .

I think it does, to some extent, get easier.

Not because they get any more helpful or anything (yeah right!) but becuase, in my case at elat, the more I have got used to it the less I ahve blamed myself for cock ups / lack of result iyswim?

I did find dragging --requesting that dh attends a few appointments helped as I found the contradictions / mind changes genuinely amde me doubt my won sanity- if you've got someone there to say 'no she really did say X, Y Z last time' it helps somewhat.

Oh I see- being a 'natural' chain of command type I seem to follow MD's rules anyway (and am a gem at the well composed polite letter that has buried strength /puts everything in writing- tis definitely my talent in life thank goodness).

Has he been seen by the local Educational Psychologist? If not, get the nursery/SENCO to refer you.

Posh, agree totally.
It's important to have a good moan and offload and MN is fantastic for this.
I just get frustrated when people do this but don't follow through with the powers that be in the way that I know gives them the best chance of being listened to and respected.

15 years in this field have given me a pretty good grasp of how things work and a large proprotion of my MSc concerns the utterly ineffective SN system so I am on fairly solid ground.

Please rant away Poshpaws. I remember your child from a thread I started a few months ago. We're still normal side of odd/odd side of normal too.

Is nursery attached to a school? If so, is the head involved? We are finding this helpful, as all the more junior people and also the NHS people tend to be worried about covering their backs.

Oo, more replies. Thanks guys.
Moondog, thanks for the support . And thanks for your experiences peachy and vjg13.

Yes,lingle, our boys do sound similar and no his nursery is not attached to the school. He has such a good relationship with the senco/his keyworker at his current nursery I didn't move him. Now wondering if I made a mistake in doing that as I feel it may have been better for him to establish friendships with children he would definately be going to school with. Ah well, can't change that now (have tried to see if I could move him, but unable to....) Area senco has mentioned that once we know which school he will definately attend, we will get the head and their senco on board.

Buckets, would an ed psych be better than the dev paed he saw? Are they more thorough in their assesment?

probably six of one and half a dozen of the other with nurseries.

I moved DS2 out of the nursery where he had a playmate - now he doesn't have any playmates dammit!

Where's your lad with language? Still enjoying being one of the gange in the playground?

My experience with DS - at 3, because of his language problems he learnt far more from the adults - i.e. me! (his first nursery was crapola) - his language needed to be a step on before he could benefit languagewise from being round his peers. I wouldn't underestimate the effect a good keyworker can have.

Yes, lingle, he loves running around with others in the playground. He has started to tell the to 'hurry up, come on' if they stop running .

Hie language in general is improving at a fast rate. He now plays happily alongside children at nursery but still mainly alone, although he does have a special relationship with a little girl there,so I am told.

TC, I agree with you. I suppose in moments of panic I think about moving him from the nursery, but as you say, a good keyworker can make a real difference.
Must admit I am dreading school in Sep. He will know a number of children that are going (their older siblings are in DS1's year), but it already makes me feels sad when I see them talking and interacting in a way that DS2 can't yet.

Moondog, just rereading what you said about following through.

The report from our learning support teacher contained a few statements that were wrong, but also some interesting points where his behaviour at nursery is very different from his behaviour at home.

In my own professional world, I'd ask for a word version by email so I could insert my comments below each paragraph and I'd ask nursery to do the same.

For instance, she said she noticed a funny gait whereas nursery say gait is normal. And she noticed him looking closely at objects and I would like to add that he darts his eyes to the side when running sometimes.

A composite document like this would be far more valuable to everyone I think but would it be outrageous to ask for this?

I am concerned that if we leave partial accounts containing inaccuracies floating around each other, then it will cause confusion and not be a proper baseline.

I noticed by the way that when she presented it to us, she asked DH if he agreed and he started a sentence "somewhat...." and she quickly said "yes then" as if it was somehow important to record that the parents validated the observations. DH was having none of it you will be pleased to hear! And our headmistress turned her whole body towards DH and leaned forward to listen to him, earning my undying loyalty.

Lingle,I would just announce that this is what you are going to do, do it and circulate to everyone.

Things to consider though are the fact that kids are different in different places so it is valid for people to see things you don't.

Other issue is how important these things are and whether or not time and energy reaching a common consensus might be better spent on other things.Remember,the more meetings and reports people have to write, the less time they have with your child.

Peopel will never agree 100% on things. A report is by definition based on personal observation.

Certainly wouldn't be browbeaten into agreeing something is right though like they tried to with your dh.

Also, bear in mind that professionals see and write scores of reports, many of which are saying the smae thing because of course the same issues crop up again and again with kids with SN. Thus, what is pored over by you, the paretn,is often given little more than a cursory glance by someone who has two bulging filing cabinets of the things.

I'm not saying that people are being bad or remiss, just that this is how it is.I'm sure the smae things crop up again and again in your job?

Ed Psych reports on what obstacles to learning he might have and advises pre-school/school on what they can do to help. Will help with getting a statement and recommend funding for extra staff etc - basically has more clout with the LEA than SENCO or and more specific expertise than paed when it comes to school needs.

At this stage a DX is most use for you to help get your head around things and visualise the future a bit and well, move on emotionally I guess. What really matters to him is what is everyone doing to help him cope with/get the most out of his forthcoming school experience.