ADHD, any advice welcome please!!

[alibo]

Have already got a thread "AUTISM Please help"...; am also looking into ADHD a bit more. My main concern is ds still hitting out, has scratched children recently, and is generally very impulsive and acts without thinking, can interupt conversations sometimes, and has to be always reminded to take turns etc. Does respond to teachers instructions, but always last to do so etc.
Those are the two issues teacher is talking to me about at school. Had initially dismissed ADHD as, seems other symptoms that do not fit at all. He is not hyperactive, not always up and down, doesn't climb about etc. He can sit and concentrate on tasks for a while, and loves to complete jigsaws etc. Always likes to finish what he's doing, so he can admire the finished product!! etc.
Has anyone experienced ADHD with just the impulsive, can be aggressive to other children side of things??

Really, can you tell me a bit more about it, will keep a check on thread this weekend,thanks!!

Thanks Riven, have just looked on website, it mentions about children being sensitive to chemicals can result in a child being easily upset, or having a short fuse"! My ds to a tee! Are you in USA, I AM I UK? The website says full programme not available outside USA, as food lists are for American foods?

I have also had some purified fish oils to try, which have really helped with behaviour problems; would you be able to use these at the same time as the diet?

alibo am storking you but like riven says could be the food but if i was you i would ask to refreed to a pead at cahms! how old is ds now5? cahms as been great wirth jack and you would be in same area as me.

Hi again Riven, do you know if i can get a copy of the diet from anywhere? What type of meals do you typically eat? Ds will happily eat a roast dinner, meat, potatoes, fresh veg etc, but prob would not eat it with no gravy, eg granules which will have additives in etc.? I found one website which simply listed foods to eliminate on the feingold diet, one of which was tomatoes? This would be a struggle as ds loves spaghetti bolognase, other tomato based pasta sauces etc,; Do you have to avoid meats like pre packed ham because of the preservatives etc. He loves his sandwiches for school, so would have to come up with different fillings? Sorry for all the questions

thanks riven, think will give it a try, like you said concentrating on no junk,etc. you can buy a feingold book on amazon uk i've noticed, "hyperactive child" i think, wondered if that might contain the actual diet?

We have been follwing Sue Dengate plan with DS and have seen some improvement. It's hard as it involves cutting out lots of fruit and veg due to their salicylate content.

Thanks fatzak, would you mind telling me which fruit and veg you've cut out, as i want to try anything at the moment!! And what food does she seem ok with?

Alibo if you lookhere there are lists of foods and they are classed in low/medium/high salicylates.We cut them all out initially which meant that the only fruit he could have was a peeled pear! DS loves fruit and I think he may well have been eating too much, especially of the fruits in the high list such as dried apricots, grapes and raisins. He had a food sensitivity test in the summer which showed an intolerance to oranges, so they were the first to go. Bananas are low, but then they contain something called amines which again are linked to behavioural problems!!!

To do it properly, you need to follow a really strict elimination diet- we didn't really do this- then start to reintroduce foods. There's a MNetter Snozcumber who is very clued up on the Sue Dengate plan but I think she is just about to give birth so may not be around at the moment!

I'd recommend reading Fed Up by Sue Dengate which is fascinating reading. Something we have made a huge effort to avoid since reading it is shop bought bread, as much contains a very nasty preservative which is linked wth poor behaviour. We have of course cut out processed foods, although I am a bit slack at times and do let him have the odd thing at parties etc.

Your DS sounds very much like mine. The reason we started this diet was that school and GP had started talking of ADHD and the thought of medication horrified me. We have the prob that he also has epilepsy and that is most likely linked to his concentration too.

Oh I've just noticed on your other thread Alibo that you have met Trace2 soyou are also very near to me too!! Trace and I keep talking about meeting up, so we must all meet up and talk food additives

What a coincidence, i met trace2 when our littlies were still going to mother and toddler groups!! I am in Mapplewell, where are you?

yes yes please lets meet soon!!!!!

Hi all again, just thought i'd update this thread. Ds has really improved at school (until yesterday!). Had an excellent parent's evening, teacher said he's really seetled down esp in last couple of weeks. Listening, doing things quicker, responding to teachers well, playing well, not over reacting, not lashing out etc. Responding really well to reward chart he has at school, seems altogether more confident, brilliant progress with reading, writing, numbers etc. Couldn't have praised him enough!
Then, yesterday teacher off sick, and ds scratched 4 children at playtime, even breaking the skin on the last one!. Had to see the deputy head after school, who said he was concerned ds didn't seem to want to acknowledge how much he'd hurt the child! When asked how it had made him feel to do this, (guess expecting him to say it made him feel sad), just said "I'm fine" !?
Gave him a good talking too at home, and he said all usual things as to how "wrong it is to scratch, yes it was naughty, made the child feel sad, made me feel sad too"etc
So, i feel he knows full well it is a very naughty thing, but doesn't seem to get how serious it is!!?
Now i am worried, as well as wondering about ADHD, about it being some kind of anxiety problem. I had asked him why he did it, said he didn't know, it was by accident. Then asked him had anything that day made him cross or upset.? He then replied that he was sad that his teacher was gone. Said she was poorly, and had she gone to hospital? Then asked if you die sometimes in hospital?
He has mentioned dying a bit recently, at half term he started to join in a conversation about his great granny dying etc.
He has not scratched anyone since mid December, but it seems such an extreme thing to do, after especially this week being told he has been being really good at school.
He is very sensitive and does think about things a lot, and wondering whether he has anxiety about other things in his life that i have assumed he is ok with. Eg, i know he misses his dad during the week, only sees him once a week at weekend, my dad, his grandad was dianosed with advanced cancer last summer, and has been having chemo for months; maybe he has picked up on how poorly he is?
It just seems to me scratching children badly down their faces is a lot more worrying than pushing, shoving, hiyting out in a playground , IYSWIM? Any more advice welcome,; may start a new thread on the scratching issue..

Well its good that your ds has been more settled recently and that is really important, but sorry he had a difficult day yesturday. I'm sure you feel absolutely horrible about the scratching and the sudden deterioration in behaviour! But dont let it get you too down. It may be a (predictable) blip - more later.
I have not found your other thread so forgive me for lack of background - but as the mother of a child excluded for scratching a few years back -I felt for you!!

2 things spring to mind based on my own son (now 9 with MLD/ASD/ADHD) who used to scratch faces.
First the most obvious and important thing is the missing teacher and the unexpected changes (both in class routine and in the other childrens behaviour) and stress that caused.
Secondly is your son sickening for anything as my ds seems to misinterpret things ( like other childrens shouts of fun for teasing) more when he is below par.
Back to the teacher. It sounds like your son has settled in. This could be because he is used to the routine, familiar with the teachers phrases and feels secure. Perhaps he needs to know what is coming next. His usual teacher will know all her class well, including what stresses whom and how to difuse/ predict problems. The cover teacher will not have known all this. The change may have affected other children in the class to behave differently.
My son (impulsive and autistic) is very stressed by change I think because he needs predictability and an unexpected change can be catatrophic. Also I wonder if your son was worried about his teacher - and other children made comments he took badly. My son at 5 scratched a childs face whilst trying to shut their mouth (he was barely verbal at the time so could not respond verbally and has very poor fine motor skills). The child was shouting 'bad words'. Another time he misunderstood an instruction (he thought he was supposed to line up) and pinched a child trying to pull the children next to him in the line so they would not loose points. He was excluded both times. On neither occasion was he able to explain what happened - but was later able to fill in the details.
So it may have been the unespected change in the teacher (possibly combined with worry she may not come back) that cause yesturdays difficulties and literal scratchyness rather than a true regression in his behaviour!
Hope next week is better!
Oh and check he hasn't a scratchy broken nail.

thanks magso, have bumped my other threads, so you may be able to get an idea of my ds? other threads are "autism-please help!" and "fish oils to help with impulsivity problems" ; any more thoughts welcome!

i suppose what i am going to ask now, is do you think autism is a possible reason for this lashing out ? the problem is, this is the only real problem we have, and nearly all other autistic behaviour doesn't seem to fit at all. He doesnt mind change normally, really is happy to go along with things; they have had changes of teacher before, quite a few times in fact and he's been ok...

I think I have to say very unhelpfully - I dont know!! The autistic spectrum is wide. It may just be he is only 4(and a boy), and is still learning to think ahead and perhaps doesn't cope as well with these skills in the frantic activity and noise of the playground. When ds started school there were quite a few little boys who hit out - most grew out of it. What do you think?
My son was quite late getting an autism Dx ( for a child with severe learning and communication delay) in part because he is rather atypical - he can be flexible when feeling secure/in a good mood too.

I used to be very careful to cut ds nails on a friday night (they always seem sharper immediatly after cutting) so if he did lash out he was less likely to draw blood!