"babbling" in makaton ?

[misscutandstick]

My second post this morning is going to be slightly more positive!

Im really proud of DS5 he started signing the odd word at the end of june after almost a year of seeing sign, and now we have very occasional 2word sentences like "train + gone" and "car + broken". But very recently hes started 'babbling' in sign, much like a baby would with words.

He kinda waves his hands and fingers a bit and then sticks in a real word. He also just chucks all the signs together that he knows - not in any real conversation/communication sense, more of a quick runthrough of what he knows.

Is this a step forward? im hoping so.

misscutandstick
we,seem to being having the same explosiobn of signs to though hes modified them suit himslf as has gross ,fine motor controll issues , still no speech but hes now putting 2 and 3 signs together now a fter 18 months of him not repeating any signs .We see lot less of the frustration rages he used to have now he can make his needs known.

im now looking at school for my ds and thinking that one where signing is used more regulary , he has SLI, mld and autisc trails.

Moondog as a salt would you feel that a child that signs be better of in enviroment where its used more often , hes at a ms nursery now with 1-1 but his 1-1 the only signer even then she struggles he signed mummy for first timne last week and she did not knowthe sign,none of the other kids sign , but at home he signs so much more as my other dc all sign to

sorry for the hijack misscutandstick

Not at all Phoenix, you raise a good point - communication has to be between at least 2 people, but if no-one else signs, then its not communication at all, its just a child flapping his hands (no offence meant) IYKWIM.

yep I do even been asked why he waving hi hands about my dd turned round and said hes not hes talking ,just not with hismouth

Phoenix, getting people to use signs is an issue even in SN schools ^ unfortunately. Very few people do it nearly often enough, which is a great shame.
It's our life mission to boost it.

If i were you, I would have formal Makaton training for whole school/class written into your child's statement as part of provision.
Other kids will love it too.

We have to create a culture in which it is seen as just a regualr thing to do 9which happliy is happening, thanks to stuff like baby signing and 'Something Special'.)

thank you moondog will make sure thats added in ,

Wanted to update : DS5's signing is coming on brill! been to 'butterfly house centre' (reptile house) this morning and he was signing left, right and centre!!! I really wanted to urge anyone trying signing NOT to give up, its taken 18mths to get to this point! we're still NOT at requesting yet, but im really optimistic it will happen sooner or later

ah we hit it misscutandstick he now will sign drink when wants and food plus milk, and

yep i second the dont give up , took us 18 months to .but the feeling that your child has a voice is second to none ,though think he going wear the mummy sign out

just updating and really hoping that MOONDOG comes along

DS5 is doing really well, he can sign about 15 signs (occasionally gets the wrong one, but not that often) and knows by sight about 25 - he will even form my arms for me sometimes eg signing 'bird' when its a chicken, he will reposition me!

BUt i was wondering when to start doing 2 words signed. and what they might be? i wasnt thinking colours as it may be a little too abstract for his understanding, using adjectives might be too much too. Maybe "sit" and "chair" together or something similar... or should we stick with just single words for now, and stop being a bit too ambitious?

snap i asked it today as well

wanted to update and have a PROUD MUMMY MOMENT!!!

DS5 IS REQUESTING!!!

Hes finally got the hang of it and requests things a lot of the time, even when he doesnt want it - think he likes being offered it!

He requests mainly 'juice' (we use 'drink' sign) and apples! but has been known to request books, trains, cars and even going to bed! He will use 2 signs together: "where" + "" (train, tree, bird, chicken) YAYYY!!! He uses signing throughout the day and can pick up an interesting looking sign after only 2 or 3 uses of the sign (sometimes he keeps them and others he loses again). Hes also learned a couple from mr Tumble!

OOOOOOH and a last PMM, we went for a walk and he saw a squirrel, he didnt know "squirrel" so he used "mouse" instead (even tho he knows what a mouse really looks like, it was probably the nearest he could think of )

Miss, sorry I missec your last posts.Not sure how, as I trawl this section a lot.
That is absolutely bloody MAGNIFICENT!!!!
Testimony to your commitment and hard work. Well done you, it's all down to you.What a star you are!
I think parents underestimate how much they can do for their own kids and you are a case in point.A salt can encourage you to sign and (if lucky) arrange trainin but the families are the people who need to be doing it.

Are you using 2 sign combinations with him?

Stuff like

where's the milk
time for bed
under the table
in the cup
big ball
blue jumper
two biscuits

Have you the money to attend a course (have you done one?) Being with some makaton trainers might boost your confidence more and help you move forward.

So pleased for you and your ds.

'OOOOOOH and a last PMM, we went for a walk and he saw a squirrel, he didnt know "squirrel" so he used "mouse" instead (even tho he knows what a mouse really looks like, it was probably the nearest he could think of )'

This is really clever and shows how he is using his language and thinking skills in novel and creative ways.

im waitng toget on next stage course to, think i got to go into London thoughas nothing local at all . ds is learning signs and asking for signs quicker than i can keep up

thanks for getting back moondog!

Havent been on any paid courses - just the 1 day free ones, but TBH they are a bit naff and a bit basic, OK for if you've never done any signing before.

Im fairly confident at signing now and will sign anywhere anytime! I have splashed out (with DS5's money ) for 3 makaton books -bit pricey (£80)- but worth it. I try and keep one step ahead, offering 2 or 3 new signs every few days when he seems to need one (his latest 'socks' which he hasnt used yet, but im sure he knows - he hates having his socks on, tried also to teach him difference between 'rhino' and 'hippo' but its not going well).

I havent used too many colours, i dont think hes ready for that yet - but he can order in size and colour. But he is very into numbers and counting, and can count to 5, just doesnt use words for it. Havent used abstracts like 'big' and 'little' yet either as i dont think hes ready for that... maybe im wrong, i dont know.

we do use 'like' and 'dont like' which he watches with interest, as well as 'no' - in the context of something NOT being there. eg. 'wheres' the 'train'? 'no' 'train' its 'gone'. He resonds really well to 'all finished/done' and will move activity in responce .

A final point - our SALT is still insistent on trying to get some speech out of him and she rarely uses makaton. He signs loads if hes happy - he signs loads for the lovely portage woman, almost never for the SALT, as she often makes him cry thru pushing him to conform too much . I think shes following her training (shes only about 25 without children). Going to have a gentle word when she comes on her own next time i think.

last thought - Yahoo images is brilliant for re-cap on signs. I like to re-cap just a few often to make sure he hasnt forgotten, and sometimes he requests pics to see!

where i been lucky our salt is a makton tutorthough shes not doing classes at the moment.We both seemed to accepetd speech is not coming for ds we not given upon it but am working on communication instead

misscutandstick

is ds making any sounds at all?

Miss, you are really on the right track.
How great! I'd love to borrow you to take you with me when training parents and staff, to show them what is possible with a bit of effort.

Your SALTs attitude is puzzling. Nine times out of ten, SALTs encourage people to sign but they don't do enough of it, so very strange to hear of it the other way around.

Communication is what matters, not the mode (every communication effort is like money in the bank-it adds to what already there and accrues interest-or at least what banks were like before credit crunch!- and adds to the child's mental store of succesful communicative transactions). Besides, research shows that signing will assist speech, not hinder it. (This is my field of specialism so I am on really solid ground here with access to all latest research).

I really hope your SALT is not discouraging your signing.

Phoenix: he yells when his needs are not met, its usually a very throaty noise. and he can make a 'sssss' kinda noise for a snake - but its not made like the rest of us do with teeth and tongue. Actually TBH not sure how he does it - but it sounds like it has a slight lisp to it . other than that, he doesnt really make any noise really apart from laughing and crying. and your DS?

Thanks TC!

Moondog: Oh no no, she doesnt discourage - but i think she feels its 'second-rate' kinda like a sweet 'party trick' . And shes desperately trying to get him to: copy her saying "mmah, mmah, mmah" and other stuff - trust me if it were that easy... doesnt she think ive already tried that tack and realised its not working? and also making him conform with her games of listening and following commands (put the SQUARE in the box etc), he wants to join in but gets really confused and then upset when it seems to him she wont let him join in (because hes not doing the thing she wants him to). its all a bit ugly . SHes asked an assistant to come along instead for a few weeks - i personally feel that shes given up because hes not textbook and she feels shes failing. I think if she changed her methods, and tried something else, im sure she'd get further with him. Thats why i want a quiet chat when she comes back and shes on her own. Incidentally the assistant isnt much better at all! she rambles at 90mph, and he hasnt a clue what shes giving it - ive cancelled the last 2 sessions with her, because the time spent with her is just pointless.

I feel that the grasp of words is getting quicker and a wider range, soley because of signing! so i absolutely get your 'money in the bank' analogy.

In the CDC there are 2 SALTS, do you think it would be rude to ask to swap to the other one? (if thats possible, of course, i dont know about her caseload) shes older and more experienced. perhaps mention a change of face might help? or perhaps a 3mth trial? i dont really know how these things work .

misscutandstick

does your salt sign the requet when shes saying it ?.We found that makes the differance here between total puzzlement and ds trying .mind ds would not know what a square is

We had a change of salt aend that made differance for as the othr was more kept assessing him, rather than working on helping him ,worth asking if they have one with more experiance of working with sn kids.

Ds is much the same when it comes to sounds ,nothing really there even though you cn see he despratley wants to.

which makes me thing it is more than just GDD thats causing it think theres actual seperate case for the laungage even the salt agrees
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actually DS5 doesnt know what a square is either - knows a star and can sign that, probably a circle too, but he would guess that its a sun. but she often asks him to do things that he just doesnt understand and she assumes that saying it fifteen times and waving things in front of him will help . The only sign she uses is "more" which he uses, but not usually in the right context and i dont think he understands the concept at all.

DS5 doesnt try to say anything, and hes gone past watching lips intently, which he used to do but doesnt anymore. The SALT has said hes got oral dyspraxia - but still doesnt do sign (!?!)

He is at the basic one word understanding level, and can sign about 20 things. He knows maybe about a dozen more but doesnt use them, and at a rough guess i would say he understands about 50 basic words (ranging from 'knows and understands well' to 'gets the general gist and recognises the word, but understands better with visual clues') which are 95% nouns, knows a couple of verbs.

hmm would it be worth asking salt to sign more words, and yes were still at one word receptive but with siging he can follow 2.Mind think I would be tempted to ask for another salt seems like shes not used to dealing with sn children

ds does not watch lips anymore either,do they use signing at nursery ?,if he goes know your ds is bit younger than mine.Salt has been in to give them some more advice recently.

is the early education tema involved yet might be worth asking for referal if not

are you talking about inclusion? we get portage fortnightly.

Portage is also organising the support at Nursery and organising meetings to discuss his needs. That said, i am in the mind that i want to start procedings for a statement - just getting my arse in gear to do it!

Ohh and we've just got Ed Psych on board too, mind, im not too sure what im supposed to be doing with her...

hmm in essex there known as sencan work with nurserys ,the ep is the one who will have say in how much help can get in nursery.We dont hae portage here sadly(( so along with being mum im therpist to

I would do it it can take miimu of 6 months and thats if its straight foward.Is ds delayed n general or just speech?

I'd write Miss and say oyu want another salt as the one you are using isn't using signs which you know help him.

I knopw you are doing most if this yourself but a chat with the folk at Makaton might be useful.They could back you up with this-maybe cite some research you could mention to the head of SALT dept. or even help you with wording a letter.

Helps to have powerful people on your side.