How do we manage if DD still pooing pants when she starts school?

[Drum]

Hello lovely people,

My DD (3 yrs 7 months) was born with a serious adominal wall defect. As a result of this, she has had ongoing health problems (largely respiratory).

She starts school in September and is now potty trained for wees, but we are getting nowhere with poos despite the intervention of the health visiting team and brilliant support from nursery school.

Her surgeon said that she is still within the normal bounds for pootty training, but it is likely that she has some bowel immaturity due to her very difficult start in life. He will see her at the start of next year if she still hasn't got there.

Now she may potty train in the next few months, in which case I shall breathe a huge sigh of relief, but if she doesn't and then starts school in Sepotember what then? I have been told that she should get two hours a day of support, but she will be at school for over six hours. The school's policy is to call a parent to come and clean the child if they poo (DD normally does at least two or three a day), so I could be on permanent red alert.

Does anyone have experience of this issue, please?

Drum

Bump

Someone linked to this document a while ago about how schools should be dealing with continence issues.

I don't think they're allowed to insist on you coming in to school two or three times a day. Apart from the issue of disability discrimination there is also a health & safety issue. It's detrimental to a child's health and well-being to be left sitting in their own poo while they wait for a parent to come in and clean them up. Even if you were lucky enough to live only 5 minutes away, by the time a teacher has sent someone to the secretary to inform them to phone you, the secretary has found your number and made the call, and then you've got your coat on and locked up the house etc, it's going to mean a child is left sitting in their own excrement for much longer.

Coppertop, you are a star. Thank you very much indeed.

You're very welcome. I hope it helps.

My friend's DS started school without being potty trained for poos and had 20 hours of support to help with regular toilet trips and cleaning up if necessary. Can you get a referral to a gastroenterologist (sp?) ? It was only after seeing one that my friend's DS became fully potty trained aged 5.

Thanks Castlesintheair. I think that I will ask for a referal to our lovely local paediatrician if things don't move forward in the next month or so. She's excellent.

Reading the document (and related links) that coppertop linked to it appears that our local school's 'verbal' policy (and that of the nearby school) may well contravene the Disability Discrimination Act and all current official advice.

This week, I am planning to very politely ask the schools for a copy of their written policies on continence and see what the official line is and will then take things from there.

All you need to do is ask the school to put a 'care plan' in place, which will detail how they intend to deal with changing, and who is allowed to change etc. The school nurse will help to draw up the plan if they haven't done one before. Most schools with experience of SN will have had a care plan in place at one time or another.

Do ask questions like where they intend to change her (ie on the floor in the children's toilet is not acceptable) and what products will be necessary/ who will provide. (ie you will leave spare clothes in her PE bag, and will provide a monhtly supply of wipes/ pull-ups, or whatever products you are using at the time), also check how many members of staff will be named etc.

I've worked in a school that adapted an area to allow for a changing area for a child who needed regular changes because of a bowel condition. I'd like to think that most schools handle this better than they did a while ago. There should be no need for you to be on standby. I know many TAs who are happy to do changes and the school should be able to provide gloves/wipes and a safe, clean changing area.

Glad to hear all this. My DS is 4 next month and shows no interest in potty training (Aspergers and lifelong chronic diarrhoea about which paediatrician is resolutely disinterested.)

Castlesintheair, how did the gastroenterologist help your friend's DS?

BofRP, gastroenterologist diagnosed a (not sure how to phrase it) paralysed (too strong a word) end of spine which meant he couldn't feel urge to poo. He was always fine with wees, although late. Gastro advised them to cut out apple juice and to drink one of those Actimel drinks every day. He's been fine ever since! He also has mild HFA/Aspergers.

Not wishing to put a downer on this but be very wary of what the school says because the law on this appears to be very hazy and life can be difficult. DD has just started school and we had a hell of a row because at the last minute the school announced they couldn't take her because she wasn't fully toilet trained.

First issue was that they didn't have anywhere to put in changing facilities and changing her on a mat on the floor is unacceptable. After much hassle somewhere was found, but it was made clear to us by the school and LA that unless space could be found and easily adapted they were within their rights to refuse to take her.

Secondly she had a statement for 18 hours, and of course this is only half a school week - clearly this didn't work for toiletting as she might need to go at anytime, so the school then said then they would only allow her into school for 18 hours for precisely this reason - they couldn;t have her there for anytime unsupported as there would be noone to changer her. Again we looked int o it and were told that was a totally legit decision by them which we could do nothing about.

As for the whole idea of leaving the child to do it and just call the parent to come and change them as and when, the school said that was out of the question because you can;t have a child sat there in class or in the toilet insoiled pants, and no regular teacher would assist so it was not on - again they are entitled to do that.

Our position was resolved when we got the sattement hours increased.

If you don't already have a statement it may be worth applying for one for this reason alone - if you already have one then you need to push for fulltime support so that this issue is properly covered.

I agree that it sounds like discrimintaiotn, but as with so many of these things it turned out for us that the legislation is woolly and open to interpretation that inevitably does not work out as the parents would wish.

I guess it depends how much the school really want to help out tbh, and how much you feel you can trust them to stick to an informal policy if that is what you go with.

good luck!

Thanks for that, Flocci.

Thanks Castlesintheair, will try that on my DS. Have strong suspicion cutting out dairy would help as he has eczema too but can't face trying it until he's older and might understand the benefits/reasons. He ddefinitely can't feel it happening but not sure if it's autistic issues or poo consistency. Sometimes tells me after he's done one.

Re nowhere to change them, wouldn't a mat on the floor of the staff loos be enough privacy?

Not just about privacy unfortunately - dd's school wouldn't do changing on the floor from a health & safety point of view as the carer could damage their back by bending down onto the floor.

There is a child in dd's school who just started reception,who is still in nappies.The school,whether by coincidence or not,had the toilets refitted and a lovely new showering area put in before she started.She is there full time and it doesn't seem to cause any problems.As the reception teacher said,all children have accidents,so it is useful for everyone.