GDD and Intellect

[misscutandstick]

DS5 has GDD of about 18mths in all areas (speech, fine and gross motor skills, play, cognitive skills, etc) he is 2.8yrs

Im a bit naiive and want to face a worst case scenario, rather than head in sand, before it lands in my face, IYKWIM.

I was wondering if GDD and intellect go together? I assume (perhaps naiively) that he will 'catch-up' eventually with his development, however old he may be at that point. But is there a possibility (and i know you dont know DS5, or his conditions, and that you are neither 'specialists' nor psychics ) but is it possible that his GDD is a sign of his level of intellect, or does it have no bearing? because presumably if his intellect was typical then perhaps his mental development should be typical too? or perhaps his intellect is fine but it his conditions that are holding him back.... but i rather think not, giving it some serious thought - he doesnt have that much understanding, certainly not at a 2.8yr level, its more of a 12mth old level...

so back to my Q, is the level of GDD an indication of level of intellect?

Thanks in advance for any thoughts on this.

I thought global meant exactly that, global as in all areas. I know the Paed said she couldn'y dx ds3 with GDD at one stage as his walking was 2 weeks too early therefore not entirely global.

I do know a few children with GDD who are older and often secondary dx's manifest later on- one child has now got an asd dx as well in his later teens

However.... kids are marvellous and 2.8 is still a baby, really he is. At 5.5 ds3 still astounds us even though we think we have a fixed idea of where he is (he's now dx'd asd). I wouldn't draw any definite conclusions at this stage really, just be aware of what might happen.

have you discussed with your paed?

I agree with Clarissimo - it really is too soon to tell.

I don't know a huge amount about GDD. However, development is not necessarily as smooth upwards curve, especially in young children like your DS and it would also be feasible that a delay in an area of development for example language or motor skills, would hide an normally developing intellect.

If you think that his understanding is impaired though, this probably isn't the case, but given that development does go in fits and starts there is still time for a developmental leap or two and I wouldn't be surprised on that basis, if the 18mth delay changed. All is not necessarily lost but I think you are wise to be facing this head on.

I think you would have a better picture for his future at the age of 5. It seems from what I have read and gleaned from the professionals that 5 is about the age they are comfortable with making a dx for most things rather than waiting to see if development will catch up.

Have you had a formal dx? What did the paed say about his future development? Is there any therapy available to him which might help him develop a little further?

i was wondering about developmental delays as well- ds2 is 7.7 years, and has delays in fine and gross motor skills, perception, and co- ordination. he is struggling to learn to read and write, although he can spell very well. he is also struggling with things like dressing, feeding himself and adapting to routines. do i need a statement for him, he is on school action plus and has been for over a year now, has seen the OT and is having ongoing appts with her in school, and i am now receiving DLA for him at middle rate for personal care and lower rate for mobility. the school is very good, and are working really hard to help him catch up with his peers, i am doing various activities with him at home to try and improve his fine motor skills and posture but i am not sure that this is enough.

cherrymonster I think whether you need a statment and whether you get one are two different things. Statements are hard to come by.

Has the school said anything about a statement? We were told outright by the HT that my DS won't get one but thankfully his difficulties are mild and he gets help in school so it isn't an issue, at the moment.

Do you think that the school could be giving your DS more help because if you do and they can't or won't, it might be worth having a shot at applying for one.

niecie- no the school hasnt mentioned one at all. i really dont know about whether the school could do more, his class teacher is fantastic and works really hard with him, but surely there is only so much that one person can do. i believe he had help during the last school year when he was in year two, but i think this has stopped now he is in year 3. however, i am not sure what the schools policy on help for children like him is, whether they only provide it up to a certain age and then expect them to be statemented for the help to continue.

OT around here stops at 11 as far as I know. That is what the OT told me last time we saw her. The rationale is that the children have developed coping strategies by then and don't need any extra help. I can't see that this would hold for every child so surely some are not getting all the help they need. My DS doesn't see the OT often, most of his programme is done by a TA. He is in Yr 4 btw. I had to get the junior organised in Yr 3 as well. Sounds like you may need to do the same. Can the OT speak to the school about a programme for your DS?

Also, have a word with the SENCO and see if she thinks there is any point in applying for a statement. If she says no that shouldn't necessarily stop you having a go but it would make it easier I think, if you could do it through the school.

my son is 3 1/2 and has GDD of about 18month dely in all areas ecept for speech which is non existant .

but i have noticed he is coming on in areas now and though cant talk is very exprssionate with his face and as for intellect miss cut and stick i caught himopening his bedroom door one night heshut it fast got back in his bed and started pretening to snore.But likeyoiu i worry about the future as can alredy see the gap widening

just take one day at a time but if you can when you get to see the paed ask about being refered to education team we was lucky and our paed was fast of the ball so when my son started playschool we already seen a Ep and had a 1-1 in place ,and has made a huge differnace

Many thanks for all replies, cherrymonster hope you get your answers and help for your son soon.

DS5 is currently getting portage and speech therapy fornightly, and its going good - he really enjoys it.

It wasnt the paed that told me he had GDD, it was the optician!!! we had been sent to the consultant opticiany bloke for a thorough check-up, and he was reading out DS5's notes and gabbled a quick history and plonked "...and has global delay..." at the end of his summary , i was a little surprised that the paed had never actually mentioned it to me directly, but had obviously written it down in DS5's notes.

DS5 reached his baby milestones late, and is unco-ordinated, wobbly and just very "young" for his age. He is completely non-verbal, cant even get him to do animal noises. He acts and thinks like a year old baby.

His future developement hasnt really been discussed with us, its usually "...hes young, and charming, lets see how it goes...". That said, we do have a geneticist on board now, and she seems convinced that she will probably find something to account for his delay and mannerisms (autistic traits). He also had quite a big regression at 12mths, losing the ability to point and wave, and lost the 3 words he could say and sign.

Incidentally our portage lady (who is WONDERFUL!!!) has mentioned 'help' in school, but she sorts that out. When I asked about statementing (DS5 is due to start nursery in September and is no where near ready), she said that again she organises that (im a bit but willing to go with it for the mo) and that she usually starts procedings in April for September start, to organise the help he might need. The nursery is lovely tho, and i have full confidence that he will receive the help he needs there.

I think i was just interested in general wether people knew/thought wether intellect and developement were connected or not, and if there were a connection, would it be possible to tell wether a person is likely to be intellect impared as an adult...

but i suppose thats the big question we all want to know, how are our children going to manage as adults? would love to hear more opinions. XXX

A loss of pointing etxc is more a sign of asd surely than GDD? ANd as for an opinion by an optician

IME (limited) ASD is a better explanation in terms of future outcome as children on the spectrum often move along amssively and also erratically (which isnt always negative- ds3 is 18 months delay in areas such as play and social skills but is the best at numeracy in his year and can type on a PC if not write with a pen r pencil)

In all honesty my advice would be to give a big {hmm] to an opticians opinion on anything other than eyesight, and ask the Paed. Sounds like the notes may have Query GDD in ? Ours did I know and that wasn't the DX.

intresting what you say about the speech were in same sitution my son does still not make animal noises has only 3 or 4 sounds ie grunts and few differnt squeals.

and the young and charming exactly samething we get though we do have the dx of GDD

clarissimo i was CONVINCED he was autistic for a very long time - but he is SOOOOOO sociable (if not extremely shy)... but that said he is sociable with brothers, portage and SALT, grandparents, surestart workers - all people that he knows well. does he actively mix and socialise with children his age? errm no, not really, but again he is very young. he tends to treat them a bit like furniture, and would rather avoid them if there is hustle and noise.

I have asked the paed on many occasions why a child may lose abilities that he once had, and hes never given me one jot of an answer on that one and glosses over it saying that hes very little and hes charming. The paed is more concerned with the complete lack of communication/gesture - but he will bring me the milk or juice bottle if hes thirsty, surely that is some form of communication.

The SALT half offered me a place on the 'more than words Hanen course' and then promptly tried to talk me out of it saying that its aimed at children with autism and did i feel that DS5 is 'autisticy' enough to warrant the course? I dont know TBH. there certainly isnt the 'barrier' of autism, hes loving and cuddly, plenty of facial expression and understands my basic facial expressions - and he has the most wonderful sense of humor, something that i understand (in my very limited experience) that children with classic autism usually dont have.

Im sure in the passage of time it will 'all come out in the wash', but ATM im completely stumped!

You described ds3 in your first paragraph- dx'd asd on dec 15th, admittedly his in certain situation sociability delayed that dx but it is clear where he is now, at age 5.5. It's not unusual for asd kids to be able to socialise with adults to an extent whilst unable with peers.

had your eceeived dx from a PAed I would not query it- as a layperson after all- but an optician is not to be relied upon.

have you looked up the triad of imapirments/ that's the clinical diagnostic basis (albeit simplified) for asd.

regression wasn't a sign of GDD that I was aware of although obv trauma etc could produce brain injury that was global in effect. But I do think that the Optician was premature and your child hasn't yet got a fiorm dx, most asd children are not dx'd at 2.

phoenix - its very frustrating not getting a straight answer isnt it?

i want to explain the opticians actions - he had the notes in front of him and was reading out what the paed had written.

My daughter is 10 and has GDD. She was seen by a paed. at about 2 because of worries we had and we asked if she would 'catch up' and he said in his experience she wouldn't.

We were initially told she had MLD but at about 5 this was changed to SLD and is the case. She probably presented with an 18 month delay which then widened as her peers developed. The most important thing for her was getting her the right extra help such as physio and SALT and a statement.

I don't want to give a doom and gloom scenario because this is just my child but wanted to share my experiences.

i was told that regression usually only happened at that age in 3 circumstances: 1) head trauma, nope, no car accident, hasnt fallen down stairs, nothing. 2) epilepsy, there has only been the one episode where something peculiar happened (he kind of went went rigid in my arms like a log leaning on me, lasted for about 30-40 secs, his eyes glazed and breathing very shallow, then he just kind of woke up) but that happened way after the regression at about 19mths, which only leaves 3) ASD.

incidentally im thinking Fragile X, which often comes with autistic traits. the geneticist said she didnt think it was as he wasnt hyperactive enough, but the tests are going to take around 9mths to come back because of the waiting list of people to be checked in this area.

thankyou VJG13, i dont feel its a doom and gloom situation, its just a situation, and i find it helpful to know both ends of the possible spectrum that we may be looking at. XXX

I too would also like to know the link between GDD and intellect. DD2 has GDD and SPD, it's due to the SPD that she has GDD (as far as we know but are awaiting blood test results). She receives weekly Physio/OT/SALT/Portage and is clearly benefiting from it. Our Portage teacher in her recent assessment said it's her fine and gross motor skills that are holding her back (her main problem with SPD is being tactile defensive so if she's not touching anything she's not developing). Her cognitive skills are 5 months behind (she's only 18mo at the moment) and her language is 5 months behind and the SALT said her language is within normal range albeit the lower end.

So as far as I can see DD2 is doing ok if her cognitive and language are reasonable yet she still has GDD dx. I guess the test will be if she regresses in the future. ASD and dyspraxia are very much on my mind but it's too early to tell. I think this is quite a grey area and almost feel GDD dx is given when they don't know the answer. A bit like if you're ill and go to the dr and they say you have a virus, just because they don't know.

I feel our dx is a bit vague, but I know DD2 is still very young for a more specific dx.

misscutandstick - have you actually discussed the GDD entry on the notes with the paed - I think it's very important you do so, in case there was a "?" or a "suspected" that the optician didn't catch on to.