8 yr old pushing me over the edge

[sadnog]

Not sure if I'm in the right place but I need some help before I go insane. I am having problems with my DD who is 8. She has severe learning difficulties at school (3 years behind herself)is on school action plus and is currently in the process of being statemented. She has been assessed by an Ed Psych and also seen by complex communications specialist. What I need help with though is her behaviour at home. She has terrible mood swings and throws herself into a tantrum at the drop of a hat. It can be started by anything from a pen not working to dropping a toy in the dirt. She instantly starts screaming and crying, kicking her legs and flapping her hands, sometimes hitting me, constantly repeating "mum" but when I ask her whats wrong she just looks at me and carries on crying saying "mum" over and over. I can't get her to use words to explain herself. This can go on for any anount of time, sometimes up to an hour. She will also start saying "sorry" in between the "mum" but won't accept that saying it once is enough, she just keeps repeating herself. I can't console her and she won't let you help her. She pulls away and stiffens if you try to hug her. This can happen several times a day over minor things. Getting her dressed in a morning is also a battle as she kicks her legs and rolls into a ball to avoid you putting her clothes on. It is affecting everyone in the house. My fiance can't stand being around her, he says it's like "Chinese water torture"! My Son hides himself in his room when she starts and gets very upset. I am not coping at all well with her and do not enjoy being a mum or spending time around her. I find being with her very stressful as I'm treading on eggshells incase she kicks off again. I cry most days and feel like a complete failure as a parent. Please help, I really am at my wits end.

Good morning all. Jill, hope you managed to have a good sleep. After all your advice and discussion last night I woke up with quite a positive attitude this morning, it was however short lived! By the time I dropped DD & DS at school my stress levels were sky high! DD was up at 7.30 and put her TV on, quite happy, asked for her breakfast, no problem. Then as soon as I told her it was time to get dressed it all kicked off, leg shuffling, burying her head in her pillow and saying "No". I decided that I would walk away and leave her for 5 mins. While I was gone she got out of bed and started playing. I went back and again told her she needed to get dressed ready for school. I got the same response. As time was getting on I had to perservere and dress her myself although it was a real battle of wills. My DS was getting upset by this time and was asking me "Why does she always have to be like this Mum?" A question I just cannot give him an answer to. He gets more upset and sometimes angry with DD when he can see how much I am struggling with her.
So now I'm at work and my stress levels are slowly dropping, however I know come 3pm I will start getting myself worked up, wondering what sort of mood she will come out of school in?!

Ds had very poor understanding of time and could not understand day charts and calendars (he cannot read and until recently could not draw or understand drawings). He also counts on his fingers - we count the 'sleeps'. I found he started to understand the advent calendar - perhaps the physical opening of a window re-enforced with chocolate to er focus the mind- helped. We had tried crossing off days on a weekly board- but I dont think he could see the point!! Just getting him to understand time helps with the meltdowns - he is more able to understand what will be happening and be prepared and willing. We use visual timetables too as do school. He doesn't understand time slots either so I use familiar times like tv programs - 20 minutes is the length of a Dora program, 1.5 hours a starwars film etc. I use timers to help him understand also. Waiting for christmas was much easier than waiting for his birthday a couple of months earlier so progress has been made!
I will freely admit that ds early school years (before the statement was in place at age 7) were amongst the hardest ever. Seeing your child suffer, get down and damaged, neglected, blamed, fall behind, develop undesirable coping mechanisms and put at constant risk and not have it in your power to fix it (as parents should) is soul destroying. (Hugs)
Tc Ds reception teacher said (infront of other parents) he just needs to learn the meaning of the word 'no'! In a way she was right- he had very little language- but it was not what she meant!

Sorry cross posted again - i forget to refresh! Would your dd respond to sympathy? 'Its cold - I didnt want to get up either - Ive put your top on the radiator to help you get warm' type of thing.
I know what you mean about getting worked up at collection time!

I've tried many different approaches but the outcome always remains the same. Very occasionally, she will surprise me and get up, get her clothes out of the drawer and be dressed before I am up. I really praise her on these rare occassions in the hope that it will encourage her to do it again but it only ever seems to be the one morning and then things revert to "normal". My DD also understood the Advent Calendar, funny how a little chocolate can work miracles! Never thought of explaining times in terms of TV programmes, I'll give that a go, also the timer idea sounds useful. I had thought of using some sort of alarm clock, so that when she perhaps asked how long is lunch? and we said "half an hour" I could set the alarm for that period of time. It gets very frustrating trying to explain to her when she keeps asking, "how long?".

Have made a decision to try the reward chart thing again with my DD with regard to her getting ready for school in the morning. Have found some lovely charts and stickers on www.stickersandcharts.co which you can print off for free. Maybe I should also make myself one for 'not losing it' and if I make it through a whole week, I'll treat myself to a bottle of Baileys!!

Good idea ( the Baileys!). I found I had to work really hard at staying cool calm and encouraging! Would it help to put her clothes out the night before to 'help her win her sticker'?

Good suggestion magso, thanks, I'll give it a try. I try to get her involved with organising herself as much as possible as she does seem to get pleasure out of her own achievements. It's when things don't go quite how she'd like, that the frustration and temper kicks in. I'm afraid these days I don't very oftem manage to stay calm, so I'm really not holding out much hope for the Baileys reward!

Its hard to stay calm if you are exhausted! ( and dealing with the statementing just adds to the load I am sure). We really appreciated the monthly saturday club when it was running as it gave us all a break!

Hi. Good weekend with DD, pretty much tantrum free. She got dressed today also with little problem but did however, for the first time, tell me she hated school. When I asked her why, she told me it was too long! Should I be concerned by this? Her teacher last year told me he felt she struggled with a whole day and suggested that maybe she only attend in mornings, but I was horrified and said that I was not happy with that idea. I felt she needed to be at school as she was so far behind anyway. What would sending her home at lunchtime achieve? Was I wrong to think that way? I worry that she may be unhappy at school, although she has never shown signs of this before.

When my ds was in ms he came home for lunch and returned to school for the afternoon. It was counted as part time schooling. I was not happy with the arrangement because it seemed a cop out, but it did work very well for ds. Ds (who was not really able to eat unsupported) got fed and watered, taken to the loo and given some TLC. He missed out on playtime but he was getting very knocked around unsupervised so it solved the injury problem too. We eventually got him staying all day for 2 days a week by the end of year 2.

Glad you had a good weekend. She probably can't tell you why she doesn't like school. Ds used to get very bored with waiting for help and I think because the work was 'too hard' (ie not play). Could they reward her with things she enjoys to help things along?

From what I can gather she quite often gets taken over to the nursery or reception class in the afternoons if she is not coping well in her own classroom. DD interacts very well with children much younger than herself and enjoys this type of environment. I work part time (9 - 3) so sending DD home for lunch would not be practical for me nor would only schooling her in the mornings, which is what they originally suggested. Thinking about it that probably sounds quite selfish ! But I don't know how we would cope financially if I had to give up work.

I would advise you to resist the idea of part time schooling if it does not suit you. I think it is a cop out especially for an older child. Once in place it is difficult to fight unless a child has a diagnosed disability. If a child needs more support at school then a statement is the way to go.

"tantrum... pen not working...dropping a toy in the dirt.... flapping her hands...constantly repeating "mum" ...This can go on for any anount of time, sometimes up to an hour. ... she just keeps repeating herself....pulls away and stiffens if you try to hug her. ...Getting her dressed in a morning is also a battle as she kicks her legs and rolls into a ball to avoid you putting her clothes on."

Sounds very similar to an ASD to me. Sensory difficulties, repetition, flapping, no 'off switch', not a lot of useful language in an emergency, meltdowns over something small happening unexpectedly, painful to be hugged if 'overloaded'.

Have you tried using signing or pictures as a way to communicate when she's in this sort of state?

Have you tried getting her to somewhere safe and quiet and giving her a heavy duvet to hide under for a while?

Just thoughts, but sometimes it works.

Many thanks for your suggestions Amber. I just get so frustrated when she doesn't communicate other than grunting at me or constantly tapping me on the arm, repeating "mum". I would never have thought of using pictures, that's a really good idea as she loves to draw, maybe I could get her to draw some of her own cards. Another bad morning this morning when it came to getting ready for school and I am extremely embarrased to say that I completely lost it and even swore at her! I felt so guilty after dropping her off at school. I try so hard every day to start off with a positive attitude and to try and approach DD with different strategies but when they don't seem to work I become more frustrated and just end up losing my self control. I find that if I try to walk away from her she ends up screaming louder and becomes hysterical. This stresses me out even more. I really am not handling things very well at all and I am always angry with myself after for not holding it together better. Something else I've picked up on that other people have mentioned, is her lack of emotion if she she's I'm upset. She just stares blankly at me, yet if a child falls over in the playground she will rush to see if they are OK. Is it just me she is struggling to show her emotions to?????

There's a difference to seeing someone using body language to express their emotions, and someone falling over. We can see the person has fallen over, but our brains don't see unhappy faces properly at all. You need to be clear that you are sad/worried, and what you need her to do. Use only words. See if it helps. A social story explaining it in pictures might be just the thing. There are social story books you can buy that show how these work. Well worth a try, I'd say?

As for your own frustration, yup, I can understand it. But you might find that really clear explanation and pictures make enough difference until you can get some expert advice?

I'm probably completely going off on another tangent here but something I've not mentioned before is that we have a cat. DD absolutely loves animals to death (almost literally). She is very overbearing when fussing animals and particularly with our cat. She is always picking him up and stroking him in places he doesn't like ( she's had a fair few scratches because of this) but no matter how many times we explain (or how many scratches she gets) she still does it and then she wonders why "Smudge" always runs away from her!! If she does manage to get hold of him he meows at her as a warning and we tell her "leave him alone now he's getting angry" but she doesn't stop until she either gets a scratch or the cat legs it! She also feels the need to pick up small children and was always hugging her teacher last year (she doesn't seem to understand that this is not appropriate behaviour). Are these also common behaviours with ASD?

They would be fairly common behaviours, yes, but that doesn't mean it has to be ASD. It could be other things, so I'm just guessing.

You may need to use a stop signal rather than words - a red card, a stop sign using your hands. Just the word 'no' may be a lot easier to focus on rather than the explanation. See if that works any better. And maybe distract her with something else, a cuddly toy that's similar etc, then a short reward phrase when she gets it right? It can take up 30-100 times to get something wrong before it starts to make sense that we need to do it a different way. The patience of many saints may be required .

Hi Electra, good to hear from you again. I feel that DDs current school have completely let her down. I questioned her learning abilities in year 1 but was told by her teacher not to be too concerned as her birthday falls late in the school year and she was therefore one of the younger pupils. It started to become more apparent in year 2, that's when she had her first IEP and her behaviour in class changed for the worse. She is not destructive or malicious, she just loses concentration and amuses herself with other things. She is fidgety and wanders around the classroom, other times she would just take herself off and sit in the book corner cuddling a cushion. However I found her teacher in year two very condescending and I felt that she just dismissed DD as a naughty child that she couldn't be bothered with. Her year 3 teacher was a completely different story, took a lot of interest in DD and spent a lot of time talking to me about her days in school, it was at this point that I managed to get her seen by the Community Paediatrician (is that different to a developmental Paed??). She diagnosed DD with ADHD. After two appts and trying meds with no success she saw a different Paed who disagreed with diagnosis and promptly signed her off and referred her to ED Psych. Since then she has seen Behavioural specialist and Complex Communications team. I finally decided to apply for Statement after Ed Psych review and speaking to PP. This process was started in Nov, so a while to go yet from what I can gather. Both Senco and Ed Psych have mentioned Special school, I just want to do what is going to be best for DD as I'm really worried about her. (sorry didn't mean to go on for so long!!)

Hi Sadnog....sorry I've not been on but you know how it is. The weekend was a nightmare....managed to get out on Friday night AND saturday night, first that's happened for a very long time! That wasn't the nightmare....the mare was that we decided to take DD to Clarks for some new school shoes....managed to get her into the shop which is usually a bit of a struggle in itself but there was no way she was getting her feet measured. She seems to think she is going to be hurt or something bad happen if she gets this done (think it stems back from having numerous appts with all sorts of docs and more often than not they were prodding her, sticking needles in her etc). She was quite happy lookin at all the shoes and boots....we had decided on 1 pair of ankle boots and 2 pairs of knee length boots, there were no shoes in her guessed 'size'. Then it all kicked off, we had to leave the shop, she was going mental, on the floor, hitting me, biting her dad etc She wasn't understanding that it was time to leave the shop as we had paid for her boots. There was no way I could get this across to her, I felt like a total failure with everyone lookin at her and then me to see how I'd deal with it....but as usual I stood tall and rose above them all looking their noses down at us and also at what "words" were coming out DDs mouth....very stressful indeed. But I looked on the bright side, at least I got her in the shop so it's a start! Some people probably don't know why I'm goin on about this but if she was able to understand that we had to go, you could put it down to having a tantrum, but she doesn't understand and that is her way of communicating.....Jack Daniels was needed that night! Sunday was ok, took her shopping for clothes!

Sleeping is still a big issue....she is now back in her own bed, going off to sleep (while we are there sitting with her) but then back into our room through the night!! aaaaaaaggghhhh!

Looks like you've been getting alot of good advice over the past few days.

Take care and sorry I've rambled on and on and on.......Jill

I entirely agree Electra!! Ds sn school is still expending time and energy undoing 3 poorly supported years in ms. Some of ds 'coping' techniques are pretty unhelpful now!

Hope Statement will soon be up and helpful sadnog.

Hi Jill, sorry you had such a bad weekend. Sympathise with your shopping nightmare, DD used to just sit herself on the floor in shops and refuse to move, i would end up having to drag her out while she was still curled up in a ball, and yes i got the looks too!! I tend to avoid taking DD shopping unless it's absolutely necessary. As for the not sleeping, I really don't know how to help you, as I said before by some sort of miracle a star chart worked for DD and perserverance but it may have been that she was just ready. Not much consolation to you, I know, when you're deprived of sleep. I hope things get better for you soon.