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SN children

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Original poster

When do you discipline and when is their sn???

24 replies

mumgoingcrazy · 03/01/2009 19:53

I'm a bit stuck and wondered if anyone had some advice for me.

DD2 (18 mo) has SPD. She is mainly tactile defensive but also has auditory and oral processing issues along with lack of body awareness etc.

I feel a bit of a fraud starting this post as I know a lot of mums on here struggle with bad nights so feel free to shoot me down but I'm not sure where to go really.

She has always been a good sleeper (from 9 weeks old). She has gone to bed no problem and woken up happy. Her day sleeps are a bit hit and miss but this is mainly down to having a 3yr old sister and having to just fit in. For the last few weeks she has absolutely screamed when going to bed in the day or night and does not give up. When you pick her up for a cuddle she's as happy as anything so not in pain I don't think, although there have been times we've dosed her up thinking she's teething. This has gone on so long now day and night that I think she might be being a madam, but what if it's some sensory issue that I havn't picked up on and I'mbeing a total bitch leaving her to cry.

My question is do you ever know if it's them just displaying normal behaviour that needs normal disciplining or is it their sn?

If it is just a question of disciplining her, does anyone have any tips? I think we've been quite lenient with DD2 and she isn't used to us being strict, we're completely different with her than we were with DD1 and I think this is our compupance.

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Mamazon · 03/01/2009 19:57

Ds has HFA. he was a brilliant sleeper until he got to about 13 months.
he hasn't slept right through since unless he is on melatonin.

I wold try working through some of the sleep techniques normally advised but if your still not getting anywhere speak to yoru pead. it may be something more.

sarah293 · 03/01/2009 19:58

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Original poster

mumgoingcrazy · 03/01/2009 20:06

I must admit leaving her to cry makes me want to cry, I hate it. A friend of mine suggested the controlled crying technique from Supernanny but it's always at the back of my mind that she's crying for a reason, there is a sensory issue that I have missed and that she is actually suffering.

If she is just displaying normal 18mo behaviour I need to nip it in the bud. I hope this isn't the sign of things to come and it's just a phase.

How old is your DS now Mamazon?

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Original poster

mumgoingcrazy · 03/01/2009 20:19

Riven, what made your kids finally sleep through at age 3?

We were always quite strict with DD1 but with DD2 we struggle to be.

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Mamazon · 03/01/2009 20:22

he's a not so little 8 now.

im not keen on the controlled crying as it just upsets everyone.

Original poster

mumgoingcrazy · 03/01/2009 20:28

Do you know of any other techniques that work?

Every night we do the bath, milk, stories and bed and she is totally happy right up to the point of getting up to put her in her cot then she kicks off big time. She screams so much the next day she's either husky or almost lost her voice completely.

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sarah293 · 03/01/2009 20:29

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BriocheDoree · 03/01/2009 20:33

Both of mine went through a bad phase around 16 months, so slightly younger, but I think it's fairly common around now...separation anxiety, awareness that there's more going on around them. Not necessarily an SN thing. Can't remember what we did to help DD grow out of it - don't remember her being too bad. DS has shared with DD since 6 months so as long as they go to bed at the same time he's OK - he just kicks off on the nights when she wants to stay up! Hope you can come up with a solution soon as it really sucks!

BriocheDoree · 03/01/2009 20:34

Oh yeah, and I also hate CC!

madmouse · 03/01/2009 20:37

I just did controlled crying with my ds (11 months) because he was awake for no reason (would fall asleep on your shoulder then wail in cot). I never thought I would but I got too tired and the result has been amazing. From waking at least six times during the night and breastfeeding him 8pm, 11pm, 2pm, 5pm as well he now goes 8-8 waking me only at about 5. I know he is awake more often but has rediscovered the art of self settling to an amazing extend like he suddenly realised 'oh, right, I put myself to sleep? ok'.

I would not have coped if it had been hours of wailing, but his was mostly muttering and talking loudly (la! laaaaaaa! laaaaaaaaaaaaahla bababa duh waaaaah etc ) and he only once got beyond the 20min shush, at which point I did pick him up as he sounded very unhappy.

It may be worth a try. You can always give up if it feels all wrong.

It helps that as far as I know ds only has mild cp so I have less of the guesswork

madmouse · 03/01/2009 20:38

for the more awake among you that should be 8pm, 11pm,2am, 5am

Original poster

mumgoingcrazy · 03/01/2009 20:38

If a child is having seizures that changes everything surely, I don't know what you'd do about that.

I havn't thought about co-sleeping actually. DD2 does really love DD1 so that could work, not sure about the other way round though. DD1 is brilliant at going to bed and staying in bed. Occasionally wakes us for something but not often so not sure if it would disrupt her, although when we went on holiday they shared and it was fine.

Might give it a go, thanks!

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sarah293 · 03/01/2009 20:43

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Original poster

mumgoingcrazy · 03/01/2009 20:44

Actually Brioche you may have a point. She's become very clingy to me recently and now cries if I leave a room or if I'm in a room and havn't picked her up. In a way I feel she is being quite manipulative and DH thinks I may be hiding behind her SPD a bit. He's all for controlled crying, it doesn't seem to upset him as much as me.

Madmouse, how many nights did you do cc before you got the result?

I'm liking the idea of co-sleeping though, sounds like it works. My dd's are sweet together so DD1 may like it too.

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Original poster

mumgoingcrazy · 03/01/2009 20:45

I definately wasn't awake enough to spot that!

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madmouse · 03/01/2009 20:57

about 3 nights!! we started it on the spur of the moment at 3am (although we did do it properly, with regular reassurance).

He started sleeping more, breastfeeding less, eating more solids, sleeping more, etc. Is now finally putting on some much needed weight as an extra bonus and suddenly started to talk, which I put down to better sleep.

I can see why people do not like it and you won't hear me say that everyone should do it. But it was the right thing for us and it can work.

Original poster

mumgoingcrazy · 03/01/2009 21:04

3 nights is good, doesn't seem quite so daunting.

Did you do the 2 minutes then soothe him, then leave it for 4 minutes and then double the time each time you had to go in? I almost feel if I didn't pick her up and give her a cuddle it'd make her worse.

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madmouse · 03/01/2009 21:11

I went in: straight away, then 5 mins, then 10 then 20. He usually went off to sleep between 10 and 20.

For me it was crucial not to pick him up, because I smell of milk and because all he wanted was either to feed or to have my shoulder to sleep on.

It was important for me to do all the shushing (literally go in, give his chest a little rub, say shhh ok baby go to sleep now - then out again even when still crying.) because I have been his night companion through almost a year of breastfeeding, so I thought it was only fair on Nathan to still have mummy come in.

Original poster

mumgoingcrazy · 03/01/2009 21:27

Thanks madmouse, it sounds so easy and I guess 3 nights isn't the end of the world. I'll see if I can stomach it tomorrow, I'm also going to see what DD1 thinks of DD2 sharing her room too. I think she'll be quite excited at the prospect.

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Original poster

mumgoingcrazy · 04/01/2009 12:21

Well DD2 went through to 5am (pretty good for her) and started screaming as usual. On the Supernanny website it says about determining which cry means what ie the cry that has lots of pauses in is the child waiting for you to go to her. Well this is exactly what she did, I'd just never really noticed before.

I went in, soothed her and tucked her blanket in and left her without picking her up. She was pretty cross about that but settled within 2 minutes then slept til 8!!

So DH and I have come to the conclusion she is actually displaying normal 18 mo behaviour and we'll deal with it how we would have dealt with DD1. We're pretty confident that it's not a sensory issue.

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madmouse · 04/01/2009 20:54

I am so pleased that you have found something that works for you

Just to punish me for boasting how easy cc was Nathan was awake three times last night, at 12.15, 2.30 and 5. Was awke for 15mins, had some milk and had a bum change respectively, so not too taxing, but bl**dy typical.

But hey, he is a baby, not a robot

Original poster

mumgoingcrazy · 05/01/2009 15:42

We did cc last night for the first time, we put her to bed at 6:30pm and she screamed until 7:45. She started up again at 5:20am and didn't go back to sleep. This morning she cried herself to sleep again and then woke up 20 minutes later screaming. She's being a right pain at the moment.

The annoying thing is she is so bloody tired why won't she just give in to it!!! AArrrgghhhh!!

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Phoenix4725 · 07/01/2009 19:54

it could be tht she not need as much sleep sorry br tider of bad news 5am iss pretty standard wake up here for both my younger kids one with sn , therere both larks , though i now get to wakemy 2 teenagers who wre larks revenge is sweet

Original poster

mumgoingcrazy · 07/01/2009 20:12

I just wish she could tell me. She is a bit better now, she went through to 7:30 this am which is her normal self but still cried herself to sleep and cried when she woke up. She used to love her cot and her room, regularly woke up in the night for a quick chat and a giggle with her toys. I don't know what's happened, I've been spoilt with DD1 being so good, so hoping this is a phase.

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