what is the next step for dd1, SALT wise?

[silverfrog]

this is somewhat inspired by lingle's thread earlier today (thank you, and sorry for stealing the format )

dd1 is doing really well atm speech wise. She is brilliant at commenting on her situation and surroundings, so in the last few days we have had:

"dd2 is going to the toilet"
"daddy is making a cup of tea"
"come and see the swans on the puddle " (well, actually, they were seagulls, but I was impresed nonetheless)
"the tree is coming out of the puddle" (waterlogged bit of ground after recent rainfall)
"let's go and find new house and then watch singing hands (on way home from playground - we had been talking about watching singing hands, and as a chunk "and watch singing hands" gets tacked onto anything atm (new obsession!)

the above were all true, and instantly reflective of her situation (literally spoke the sentences within "normal" time lag for a 4 year old)

so where do we go from here? what is the next step we should be aiming for with her? (we have no SALT input, and have recently moved counties, so likely not to have for a good while - noteven sure what the provision will be in new area)

any ideas?

For DS, the next big step after the commenting was (probably 3-6 months on from that) was commenting on things that had happened in the recent past, particularly things I hadn't seen - so things like X hit me, we went in Y's garden etc. Oh and in response to "What eat at school?" - getting a sensible answer (i.e. plausible if not necessarily accurate) rather than a blank look.

Glad your DD1 is doing so well.

Oh and also stopping talking about himself as "DS" but using "I"

btw don't know if you saw TClang's post, but she's setting up an offboard speech and language related e-mail list (that's probably going to turn into a yahoo group), I'll bump the thread so you can contact her if you are interested.

oh, i forgot, she has been telling me about things she has done at school.

I thought she was just wittering on, as usual (, obviously all her utterances are of complete interest to me, etc, etc) until last week when she told me she had been to the toilet in amongst a list of things she had done, so "done painting, done lunch, had raisins for snack, been to the toilet", etc

I was answering on auto pilot - "hmmm? oh, really, yummy raisins. I like raisins" etc unitl she got to the toilet bit (she's not toilet trained) when I though she was just wittering on from her stock of useful phrases. When we got home I went to change her, and she had been changed at school, so she had been right in telling me she'd been to the toilet (as in place) after all!

oh, cross post TC. Thanks.

So answering questions might be in the line up for where to go next?

I hadn't seen the offboard speech group post - will hunt (curse moving house and the lack of internet!)

yes, one day DS told me they had read Dora books in school, I assumed he was just doing the "give a plausible answer thing" but when I checked at school, they do have Dora books LOL.

Thinking back - when we had private SALT in last (last May) she suggested:
playing eye spy games (with adjectives not the alphabet!)

having two toys or glove puppets (one for you, one for her) and doing a game of - my puppet can dance and encourage your child to think of something her puppet etc can do.

she also gave me some written exercises for describing objects by function and matching to pictures on a lotto board "Find something you can write with" etc - so you would start off asking the questions, and progress to her taking turns asking you something.

Ds1 will tell us things that have happened in the past now, but places them out of context/with no explanation. So for example today he said:
"Three ducks say 'Sorry Uncle Donald'" without explaining whether he'd read it in a book or seen a show and where he'd been when it happened. So we're working on getting him to expand on that.

DS1 has a generic past tense to comment on everything

been Boots

been lunch

been bath

been Bob the Builder ( I've watched a Bob DVD)

Also , If I ask him to do something he doesn't want to do, he says

been x

He is obsessed with singing Little Bo Beep so if I suggest Twinkle Twinkle, he snarls back 'Been Star'. Or If I say, 'Do you want to go to Sainsburys? He replies 'Been Sainsburys'

The Hanen SALTs said to use his immediate echolalia to model answers for him - as in use the pronoun he would use. I want a biscuit not 'Do you want a biscuit' so that he echoes the right pronoun.

We're getting pronoun muddle here too. Is there a consensus on correct approach? Does it depend on stage? It's only a few months since he was addressing everyone by random names so maybe we should stick to using names all the time for a while longer. He loves distributing: "one for mummy, one for daddy, one for DS1 and one for DS2".
He was saying "I want". Then rather charmingly he started saying "DS1 do you want some....". But now he's muddled it and started using the "you" about himself....

Thanks everyone. TClanger - will get an email off to you soon-ish, if that's ok?

TotalChaos: thanks, that's really helpful re: SALT input. We have aleady started some feature/function/class stuff with her beloved photos and flashcards (so, instead of asking her to give me a picture of dd2, she gets asked, which on eis your sister? or, instead of asking her to give me a picture of a bird, it is "which one has feathers" or "which one flies in the sky". Slow work, but we're getting htere inch by inch)

cyber: dd1 has a generic past too - usually 'done' or 'had', so typically she would say

i had raisins
i've done painting
I've had Something special, etc. Where she does use a different (ie more accurate) verb, it is normally something she has learnt as a whole chunk - as soon as she is generating language herself it is back to generic past. When she doesn't want to do something, it is either "finished" or "tomorrow", so ask her if she wants an apple, eg, and she will say "apple tomorrow"

we were recommended to model appropriate language for dd1 too. We completely cut out questions for her (which is why she is not so good at handling them, I think, but it did serve a good purpose), and only presented her with what she should be saying. So, no asking "do you want a drink" just saying "mummy, I want a drink", and if she comes up to us and wants something, she has to ask properly. So, "mummy read it this one" is no longer good enough (she is brilliant at vocal imitation) and we supply "read it to me please" (or similar) and she doesn't get it unless she copies.

Sadly, where we talk to dd2 as well, dd1 is picking up loads of references to her - a recent favourite is "give it back to dd1" - something which we say to dd2 a lot (she is 22 months, and constantly taking things off dd1) - trying to remember to model "gve it back to me" is difficult, especially since dd2 picked that up all too quickly, and so dd1 still lost out . So pronoun confusion is here to stay for a little while longer, methinks.

We're also working on "why" and "because" questions with Ds1 and it's clear they're working on it at school as well. The SALT sent some cartoons and cards to help with the concept. With pictures he does ok, if he can see what's going on. Sometimes his perspective is a bit out, eg picture of boy looking scared and next picture of huge spider on sink, so Ds1 says he's scared because he has to wash his hands. Which does make me suspect/wonder that he doesn't actually know what "scared" means, as he loves washing his own hands and doesn't think of others' perspectives with things.
With regard to asking him "why" questions with no visual clues then he struggles a lot. This was an example today:

Me: "T, if you fell in a puddle why would you have to change your trousers?"

Ds1: "I have blue!"

Me: "Yes, you could change into blue trousers. But why would you change if you fell in the puddle?"

Ds1: "I change to black trousers."

Me: "Black trousers would be good. But if you fell in the puddle would your trousers be wet or dry?"

Ds1: "Dry"

Me: "In a puddle? If you fell into a puddle of water your trousers would be dry?"

Ds1: "Yes."

Hmmm, I'm even more confused about pronouns now. DS2 doesn't really echo much any more. He has taken to "yes" like a duck to water. I can just imagine the confusion that Silverfrog describes.

This could be a question to email to that speech therapist of mine..........

two steps forward, one step back and all that.