Can a child have low muscle tone but be hyper?

[macwoozy]

Just received the OT report for my ds(he has HFA). A little surprised with her findings, in that I knew he was clumsy and had poor handwriting etc, but wasn't aware that he had low muscle tone or hyper joints.(or whatever that is!!)

I had a quick google on low muscle tone and it explains about tiredness etc. Ds does get tired and needs a quick rest, but he is also hyper(and would have got ADHD meds had it not been for the family cardiologist).

Does anyone know how a child could be described as having low muscle tone but is hyper?

(Just my curiosity again!!)

My dd has low muscle tone but hypermobile joints ie her fingers bend backwards almost like being double jointed,is this what it could be?

I was going to say hypermobile joints as well.

My DS has it and also gets very tired.

Is it not when they are excessively flexible/bendy/floppy? If you can be all those at once, of course!

Well in the assesment she manipulated his fingers and played around with his legs and said he was floppy.

I will be impressed if he could do the splits 'cos that was something I was desperate to do in my childhood!

My DS1, 11, has low muscle tone and hyperflexible joints in his hands. He struggles with his handwriting too.

Oh, sorry meant to say, that Ds1 has Cerebral palsy too, with hyperflexible joint, this makes him very very tired

I was just going to post that floppy was probably the most appropriate of my words.

My DS has bad posture, can't sit up straight for very long, is always leaning and lolling.

Occupational therapy is supposed to help.

Have a look at this

My DS has it due to AS and dyspraxia which don't seem to get a mention.

Can I beg a favour from any of you ladies that are still awake?here is a poster who has just found out her dc may have DS from tests and needs support,she is on the is anyone awake thread.I REALLY do have to go to bed,as dd will be up early/in night,but she could do with a bit of mn solidarity at the mo xThanks x

I'm feeling a little guilty really because he often complains about his legs hurting when we go for a walk around the 'big' lake, in fact the last time I had to carry him the last 100 metres, bloody knackered I was!

But he has a problem with most things and I kind of disregarded it, I hear him telling me he's tired but just think it's his way of telling me he's enough of it and that he just wants to go home. I feel bad now but I wasn't aware of this.

Thanks Niecie for the link

Don't feel bad macwoozy. You weren't to know.

My DS is the same - complains of being tired even at the start of an outing. He is a big strapping lad and used to be able to walk for miles but recently he has been complaining a lot more. So much so that we had a referral to the physiotherapist's gait clinic as his way of walking seems to have deteriorated and we wondered if that could be the cause of his tiredness. They couldn't do anything for him but we think, between us, that he is suffering more now than he used to because he has been growing so much lately and his body has been thrown out of kilter a bit.

He is 8 yrs old - how old is your DS? Is he able to tell you exactly where it hurts? It might help with further investigations and getting the right exercises if he is old enough to tell you that.

I feel guilty too for all those times I told him not be lazy and to get on with it when he probably was in some discomfort.

Now we know though, we can make some allowances. And if it helps, the OT did say to me that the only way to improve stamina and reduce the tiredness is just to keep going, get stronger and build up some muscles strength and sadly you don't do that by sitting on the sofa. As I know, myself, to my cost.

Ds1 (HFA) is also quite floppy and very bendy with it. He can do odd things like putting his toe in his ears. He too gets tired very quickly and has problems with motor skills. Without his cushion he tends to slip down chairs and eventually fall off.

Dd has low muscle tone and hypermobile joints. In her case, it is due to hypermobility syndrome which is genetic; it means your connective tissue goes floppy instead of firm.

I would warn against pushing him against the pain without consulting a rheumatologist and physiotherapist first. We did this with dd, and she is now disabled and unable to cope with more than short walks. She regularly uses a wheelchair.

Not saying everybody will get as bad, but do try to make sure he is supported and does the right exercises. He may also need insoles in his shoes: that is really helping ds who has a milder form.

Don't encourage him to do the splits: he could easily dislocate something.

It is very common with hypermobility syndrome for symptoms to get worse at growth spurts, typically around 7 or 8, or at the onset of puberty.

my daughter is autistic and findings show low muscle tone she is very flexible but gets tired easily, sometimes she would be very clumsy other times she gets herself into weird positions.

I was a floppy baby and I was diagnosed first of all as being hypotonic (low tone) however this proved to be a symptom of having (Benign) Joint Hypermobility Syndrome/Ehlers-Danlos Hypermobile Type (formerly known as Type 3) - my children and I have this. Tonnes of info at www.hypermobility.org - growing pains are typical in children. Do have a look at hte message board at the website and all the sections. I suggest you ask for a referral to a Hypermobility Clinic - Gt Ormond St is fab btw. OT, physio, orthotics really help and this is a hidden disability for most. You CAN do lots being hypermobile - supposedly David Beckham has this!

Cory, in one post there (your 2nd) you have made me feel so much better. Why couldn't the professionals have told me that?

Does it mean that when he has stopped growing it might stabilise? Actually don't answer that - I think I will start my own thread later - I don't want to hijack Macwoozy's.

Niecie I don't mind a bit of hijacking

Cory I am so sorry to hear of your dd

I can only imagine my ds's hyper joint problems are very mild, I've never known it to cause him any discomfort, and wouldn't even have noticed it. He certainly can't do most of those things in your link Niecie.

He has several sessions with the OT in the future.

Ds is 8 years old and is a very hyper child when he's happy and excited, but he can't manage fairly longish walks, and can't stand still for long without needing to rest so it makes sense now I've read about low muscle tone. But it seems he must be able to push himself to the very limit when it's something he really wants to do because then he's in hyper mode. This is what makes it difficult for me to understand.

ds4 has hypermobility with some low muscle tone though that has got better over last yr or so, he is 5 1/2 now. i just get angry that they dont look further into it as it is a condition that he has inherited off my side of the family, and they are happy to put nearly all his problems down to it. coppertop, same situ as ds4, 1 min he would be sat at table next min he would be on the floor, was funny at 1 time lol. he still does it just not as bad. can defo be hyper aswell though macwoozy, he defo is, cant keep still at all, just absolutely lethal in hyper mode lol.

Hypotonia means your muscles are slow to respond to a stimulus (ie the messages travelling between your brain, nerves and muscles are a bit slow getting to their destination, which can be due to a problem with the muscles, nerves or within the brain itself). This generally results in loose joints, as the muscles don't prevent the joints being bent back too far (because they react too slowly to being overstretched). If your connective tissue (eg tendons and ligaments) is also excessively stretchy, the lack of stability around the joints is even worse, as neither your muscles nor your connective tissue are working properly to prevent your joints bending the wrong way and getting damaged every time you move. If your joints aren't stable, it is incredibly hard work for your muscles to work properly to maintain the stability you need to be able to do things like walking. You therefore need more muscle strength than other people to make up for the problems caused by the hypotonia and hypermobility, and the more strength you need to do an activity, the more tiring that activity is - so, being hypotonic and hypermobile, but still being expected to live a normal, active life is pretty exhausting.

As for being hyper, this has absolutely nothing to do with a person's physical stamina, it is a state of mind. Being hypotonic doesn't stop this state of mind, it just means your tire yourself out and end up flopping in an exhausted heap until your body has recovered enough for you to satisfy the need to be hyper again! There is really nothing contradictory about being hypotonic and being hyper, as hypotonia does not mean a lack of desire to move around, it just means you tire out more quickly after physical effort, because you've had to expend more energy than a "normal" person to achieve what you felt the desire to do.

That's my understanding of it, anyway!!!

ps muscle strength and muscle tone are two completely different things (although some conditions - eg muscular dystrophy - result in muscle weakness AND hypotonia). You can have good muscle strength and still be hypotonic.

dd has hypermobile joints (which are quite floppy and stretchy) and finds writing difficult and has bad handwriting (she is 7) and she has low muscle tone . But swimming, trampoling and horse riding are helping with posture, balance and general confidence

Thank you all, and thank you asteamedpoater for explaining it so well, I get it now. Why didn't god just be a bit more generous with me when he was handing out the brain cells.

Hi, thought I would add to this

My Ds1, 21months has a genetic disorder, don't have a name for it yet, may never have a name, both me and my dp's results came bk ok? I also have a dd,7 from a previous relationship, totally healthy, but my ds1 has severe epilepsy(prob never be controlled), has hypotonia and hypermobility, very floppy, only learned to sit at 19 months, still shaky though, bn warned he prob won't walk for a while, he has damage also to left & right temporal lobes in brain, affecting co ordination, memory, sense of smell etc, co ordination def affected, can def see that playing with toys etc

It is soo hard, just wondered , when did yr kids walk?? Were they late starters? Jack can only weight bear occasionally

Hi,
My little boy (who has motor planning issues, probably dyspraxia and possibly slightly low tone and hypermobile joints - also speech dyspraxia) didn't bear weight until around 18 months I don't think - didn't crawl or move himself around at all until then and couldn't put himself into a sitting position from lying down until around then also. But - in the last year he can now - sit himself up, stand, pull up, started taking steps just before 2 years though couldn't stand still without holding on until he was 2 and now he is two and a half he can walk quite well - with bit of wide based gait and still has his arms held up in the air to keep balance. But the last few weeks, he has found he can walk backwards and in a circle. So - there is always lots of progress, although it's slow. If your boy is progressing from month to month, then I guess it will keep happening. It's just slower then other people's children - but - it makes it so incredible when it does happen! Though I hear you about it being really hard!!

When did you do a brain scan. We've been offered one, but have turned it down at the moment, but I'm starting to think we possibly should do. Has finding out the cause of the problems made any difference to how you treat them?

Hi Macwoozy, just wondering what heart condition your son has. My son has Tetraology of fallot and he has severe hypotonia. He also walks around 6 feet then sits down. Although he does have challenging behaviour and we still could besitting 3 hours later. Then on the other hand can be quite hyper. His physio said he should be on drugs to keep him calm. I was just wondering if maybe there was a conection between the heart and joints etc. Sorry if Iv'e rambled should be going to bed but still tidying up.