Anyone know what my legal rights are with an aggressive ASD child in mainstream?

[nikos]

After a really good start to the year at the preschool attached to our mainstream school, ds aggression has come back and he is hitting teachers and throwing chairs etc. He is 4 and his current setting has been hugely supportive of him so I feel very down about this.
I can feel within myself a feeling of 'I must sort this out so he can stay' and I think I need to stand back and let them take a bit more of the strain.
What are the legal rights for my child in this situation (there has been nothing remotely confrontational with school yet but need to know to prepare). Also what have those of you who have been there before felt was your obligation to sort.
We are quite new to this and have two older children who have never caused problems so it's really hard to see your child slap others

i was in this situation a few years ago before DS got a diagnosis of ASD. He was physically violent and school struggled with him. Does your DS have a statement? Does he have an IEP? Is he on SA+?

From my experiance i beleive my DSs challenging and aggressive behaviour came from a whole range of sensory issues and high levels of anxiety which resulted in the violence and aggressive outburts. DS cannot cope with high noise levels and struggles to follow instructions as he cannot remember them very well and needs to use visual instructions etc. He also needs high levels of support to be able to cope in class. After being in MS for 4 years my DS is now in a specialist school BUT i know if your school is supportive there can be ways to keep your DS in MS especially as he is still young!

He currently does half days (as do all children his age) and has 1-1 support. We are in the process of applying for a statement so he has full time support in reception.
The saddest thing is that his teacher said today that when he isn't being aggressive, he is delightful and takes part in most things.
It is a huge disadvantage for an ASD child to be aggressive. It is going to be the biggest single factor in his trying to integrate with other children.
We have an ASD dx, that must have been so hard to deal with bonkerz, without one.

Legally, the school have to assess the situation and take expert advice on behaviour management and try a variety of strategies. If there is an immediate danger to others, they can remove him from a situation, but they need to be able to prove that they tried every reasonable approach to solving the situation.

Something is too much for him. They need to find what. Unless they can see the world 'through his eyes', that's very very difficult. I'd suggest that they need to go back to basics and reassess the whole of his experiences in the school to see if there are particular triggers. Is he able to say anything about what's bothering him, during or afterwards? I find the Christmas season is very disruptive for children - changes in routine, Christmas decorations, flashing tree lights, the children are more excited, etc.

Niko , am in similar place, although ds1 is now 9 and worsening (Christmas.... full moon.... who Knows?)

What you say about how much is your obligation- I totally understand that.

My obliation is to do everything I can, I think; anything within the home setting I can think of is done- I let the school know anything worthwhile, from when I now he has a 'target' or a v bad day to sharing techniques / books etc.

And there it stops, for I can only do what I can: I tried tackling the impossible. It was, predictably, impossible.

Now I'm not bothered whether ds is in ms or sn, my other 2 kids will be 1 in each shortly. My concern is only that he and the others around him are safe, for that I will follow school advice. I am aware there are hints of sn or ebo school post 11.

I am worried about other children and I make my best effort to ensure they're safe as thats best for ds1. I email worries about children I know he's upset with to the head: this also gives me backup if any parent tries to sue me (is that possible?) if ds does hurt them, but thats a useful side benefit.

I have a rehearsed standard reply for parents and children who complain- 'i am so sorry, please do tell a teacher'- I did get accused of trying to absolve myself of resposibility by that, but I need teachers told as its only with their backing ds could ever get a place in a unit.

I'd love to give a copy of the SEN code to people too, i swear most of them think I just tick a box saying ' I want ds1 in MS school' and get my way; with ds3 it was a fight I lost to get him into SN, then after a year school agreed anyway and he is is process of panels atm.

What they also don't consider of course is that ds1 saves his best behaviours for home () and ds2 and I often get hit, increasingly me actually.

'We are quite new to this and have two older children who have never caused problems so it's really hard to see your child slap others'

Yes it is, hugs again. I have 3 other kids, the 2 old enough are gentle souls.

i fuly sympathise. DD is 5 and started reception in september. She is asd (aspergers most likely with adhd and odd) She often has physical/aggressive outbursts and this proves to be the most difficult thing to deal with. She is in a mainstreamn school with a very good 1:1 who now handles her very well and manages her better so these physical outbursts are much reduced. All you can do is like peachy says give asmuch information as you can as to what works for you at that time (it's always changing) so they can try distraction techniques before things get too bad. its the physical outbursts i know that mean her form teacher has to disrupt her lesson and try and get the other children out of the way. I think i'm lucky with her 1:1 and head but i reallhy don't think her form teacher or other ta's have the understanding to deal with and don't want the disruption that tends to come with her.
it's still early days for us but i think as long as preschool shares information with the school (as ours did) and everyone is frank and honest there's not much you can do. The staff themselves have to be educatd and understand your child's own triggers etc. Best of luck as i really really empathises with you on this.

Thanks so much for all your replies.
Amber- I did wonder about the time of year and noise is one of ds sensory issues. He is unable to tell me why he has hit, but he does seem to descibe it with a touch of glee (I kicked Mrs. x) which I find a bit worrying. Any ideas how to interpret that?

I've been in touch with CAMHS and have an appointment for the new year with the behaviour support team. For the first time ever I've thought ds might not make it in mainstream and that opens up a whole other set of worries

Nikos, we're bloomin hopeless at getting the facial expressions right or the tone of voice. He might not be feeling very gleeful about what he did, but he probably knows that you're less cross if he's smiling, and our voice tone is usually inappropriate until we've got really skille at it in later life. It's why we're always being told off for being sarcastic or flippant or too posh or something similar (eek).

If I was in the classroom with him, I'd probably be able to spot what it was straight away, but it could be things that no-one else can see/hear/sense as their senses just aren't tuned into it. And sometimes we barely know ourselves - we just know that we're totally overloaded.

What do you think about a reward system for good behaviour Amber? It's finding something that ds can relate to. In the past he has no motivation for stickers. And he is too young to promise computer time to. He can't understand anticipation yet.

Nikos, doomed to failure. Even now a reward system means nothing to me whatsoever. If someone says "really well done, Amber", I feel absolutely nothing. Seriously. And rewarding me with anything else isn't something I can easily link back to the event. They're in separate filing cabinets in my brain.

what works for me (might not work for him...) is a clear system of rules and a visual system to say what they are. The word 'no' or "stop" is fine. A list of rules is fine. It may all sound very negative, but a lot of the 'positive rewards' are about pleasing someone else, and that's actually hard work for us, not a reward. We can't hear the tone of voice that says "Good girl/boy!" or see the smile that goes with it. and that's extra communication that adds to an already overloaded mind. Wasted effort.

I liked very much the idea of a warning using flashcards or holding up as many as five fingers to say how bad something is. Even as an adult, I wish someone would do it so I can work out whether I've just insulted the bank manager in a minor or major way .

If there's a 'meltdown' or shutdown going on for that person, minimise all the input: Noise, sights, activity, communication. It's like dealing with an electrical fire - get us to somewhere safe and quiet, put a blanket or coat over us, let us cool down. It often works. No using the fire extinguisher though

Definitely go with the rewards. You have to identify a strong motivator though.e.g. Our school uses a space chart. When DS has all his planets on his chart he goes to the hall to play with sensory balls and gymnastic ribbons - the reward has to be immediately after the last planet is put on the chart though or it wouldn't work if he had to wait.
This rewards his space interest and his sensory needs which is perfect.

Amber - you are so good at explaining all this. Yes, maybe we need to go back and make rules explicit and visual for ds. Just maybe a list of three rules and accompanying pictures - no hitting, no kicking, no shouting.
Any ideas what would work as sanctions for breaking the rules?

Sanctions have no effect on ds1. there's nothing he cares about enough.

At 4 he's too young for this but maybe in a few eyars time- ds1 had (each teacher seems to completely change everything sadly, this one was working) a laminated card in the playground (always his triogger zone- he's ok in the class) giving him steps and how to react:

Are you feeling overloaded? go find some quiet space and count to 100. If this works yu can play; if not try again. if not find a teacher and stay alongside; if still angry go to timeout zone (tmeout zone categorically not a punishment)

Its not quie the wat it was but I can't remember as I onoly ever caught a glimpse of it once, just knew the idea

I think Widemouthfrog has a point about the rewards, if they're things that are really immediate and something that means we get away from the social stuff for a while. I'd go for a 'reward' that says if I can sit on the mat quietly for half an hour (whilst quietly screaming inside because there's eye contact and all that noise and jostling and the carpet hurts....) then I could escape to a cupboard for 15 minutes to play with a marble/hide under a blanket. You think I'm joking, but I'm not - this is still an attractive idea. Even now as an adult, I endure things in that sort of way when it's too much, and plan some quiet focused thing afterwards to calm down.

And Peachy's description of the simple instructions on what to do is brilliant too.

The thing is because it is in a portacabin it's so hard to give him real time out.

Rushing out to dd's school play but will check in later. Finding it very hard to balance everyones needs at the minute.

Our school has set up a time out zone for SN kids where they can go when needed; its not just for ds1 by any means (about 7 of them) and ds1 and another child have to share times as hey would kill each other if given half the chance. But they have a TA manning it, and keep stuff they like to do there- colourings, or DS! is 'writing' a book ( plagiarising more like!)

Old school allocated a time out zone of a picnic table outsied in January , which was takena way and put in the teachers area.

You wouldn't believe the Juniors is even linked to the Infants (same campus, different Head)- far more proactive approach, and you know the SENCO cares when she has to take a few months out to adopt a disabled daughter

Amber, thanks so much for that clarification. DS1(just 5) does not respond at all to rewards and if anything, rebels against them like they're an added pressure. We also send him to his time out place (and so do school) when he's boiling over) and it seems to help him get a grip on himself more than anything else, but it does feel like it might be a bit harsh, but you've just reinforced that sending him to a quiet, unstimulating place, whilst it might piss him off at first, probably is the best thing for him.

Umm, holy run on sentence?

Something came to me in the middle of the night last night. At ds preschool they have started rehearsing for a little carol concert they are doing for the parents. Just 4 or 5 little songs. At the meeting at school yesterday they said ds sits at his work station while they are rehearsing in another side of the room. But that he looks over with interest.
At home ds sings snippets of these songs but to sing them all in a row would be linguistically impossible for him. I'm wondering if this is where his anger and frustration is coming from. He looks over and sees all the children having fun and knows he can't join in.