Is Echolalia always a negative thing?

[AmIWhatAndWhy]

All of the 'professionals' we are involved with seem to think so.
I understand it isn't properly acquired language, but surely it is useful?

As examples, last night DS was saying 'it's time to go to sleep now darling' to DD. This morning he keeps saying 'it's a special day' (it's his third birthday). He repeats things we've said, but in context. It is just that it is word for word.

the things he repeats are a far cry from his day to day speech (pretty much zero), but I can't help but think it's a good thing. It's just so nice to hear him talk.

Sorry if I'm not making much sense.

DS's echolalia rarely tended to be that useful - it used to be verbatim lengthy quotes from his favourite TV shows. I can see why the professionals aren't keen on echolalia - as after a certain ages it's not a normal way of using/developing language - but if it's being used in an immediate way (i.e. in a conversational context rather than just a random repeating things to himself for the fun of it context)- then I think it can be a good thing in that he realises that some conversation is required, and wants to join in.

I expect that you extend his echoes into a conversation - "it's time to go to sleep now darling".... "yes that's right give your sister a good night kiss then we can read your story...." etc.
It will be a rewarding exchange for him. It is lovely he is talking and saying things in context. That must be a good start to the whole communicating business.
He sounds lovely.

The Hanen SALTS are positive about echolalia - and say it can be used to promote more useful communication - they don't say exactly how of course ! DS1 only started echolalia a few months ago and it has been a huge help to us. It is in context too - 'See you soon' after saying Bye Bye'

this is a very interesting article on echolalia:-

groups.msn.com/TheAutismHomePage/echolaliafacts.msnw

(lifted link from TinyClangers blog on Speech and Language Impairment)

Thankyou, I will bookmark that article to read later, got to dash now. We are going to the maritime museum to meet friends.

No doubt he will spend over an hour at the whirlpool maker, bless him.

It can be very useful. Especially when used in context or communicatively. Some children use it very well to communicate. Less useful if its just being used for stimming.

I'd take echolalia for ds1 (he's non-verbal).

Everyone always quotes that Prizant paper, but I have a better one Actually 2 papers. One showing it being used communicatively and resourcefully by a child, and one where it was not. So as always depends how it's being used. And if its a stage of language learning then I guess it has its uses anyway.

I can't think of anything at all positive to say about "telly talk" echolalia TBH, it was just DS memorising and regurgitating a string of sounds, and I found it quite upsetting that the only time he was speaking in more than single words was to quote Dora the sodding Explorer. But what the OP is describing does sound pretty resourceful - saying a relevant phrase at the relevant time.

DD uses echolalia both for communication and stimming. The stims drive me nuts but the communication can be useful. I can usually tell from tone of voice if the immediate repetition of a phrase is a positive response, a negative response, or simply that she doesn't understand. I think the reason we missed for so long that she has a language disorder is that to people who know her she actually communicates pretty well. Wasn't until she went outside the shelter of immediate family that it became apparent that other people didn't!

I have no direct experience of echolalia but if my ds repeated just ONE word (even if it was out of context), then I would see it as a positive thing because it would prove that he could actually talk.

I know what you mean Manny. DS1 can't physically talk so if echolalia got those speech sounds going then I wouldn't care what it meant.

In fact that's how he learned to say Mummy (his one word). He was wondering around just saying mummy mummy mummy without meaning, paying with sounds for a long time before he realised he could use it as a real word.

Hanen people suggest you use cue cards to help children know what to say in certain situations. We watched a video last night where a boy was using them to prompt him to say the right things in a game, like 'Press the button'. In a sense, he was just learning a script. I think echolalia in context is a bit like this - a learnt phrase which can be helpful for someone who struggles to remember what to say in the right order. DS2 only repeats single words as a rule, but I try to add one word back - eg
Me: Time to brush teeth
DS2: Teeth!
Me: Teeth time!

I think it depends; sometimes children seem to use it more as a stim because they like the sound of the words rather than to communicate. Also I think it can get kids locked into rather obsessive speech patterns where they say something to get you to say something and it's not really useful if they don't understand the meaning behind the words they are saying even in context. Having said that DS2 (now 7) has come to use a sort of adapted echolalia which I think helps him to find the right words more quickly than he is able to process if he has to find them from scratch for himself. So for example, he likes this story called the Invisible Boy where the child says at one point "I shouldn't be here". When Ds2 wants to go home now, he will say to me "I want to go home, I shouldn't be here". He is very good at using it and often changes some of the words to make sense but I think keeping the basic word order helps him structure a sentence. Because he adapts it, I think he does usually understand the meaning. However it does mean that sometimes he says things and I am amazed that he could express that so well, and then two weeks later I will hear it on a TV programme he likes, or Ds1 will say "Oh that's from such and such" .

It helps me . Even at my age, I find I repeat things back to people if I'm stressed out, because it helps me to concentrate and hear what they said better, and I'll rehearse wording over and over again (though I've learned not to do it out loud). I can see how it might be irritating and stop useful language-learning-skills if it's done too much, perhaps, but it has a purpose for me.

At 2.5, DS1 was beginning to use his echolalia to tell us things. At 2.5, DS2 just drags our hand and squeals. DS1's language is now verging on the lower end of typical for almost 5, but I'm not forseeing anything quite so wonderful for DS2.

I'd say it has its uses, even if much of the time it alternates between stuck record and just plain entertaining.

ds's echolalia has developed to become more contextually relevant. a year ago, he was using it constantly to stim and it could be difficult trying to "reach him" through the constant noise.

he has a much wider repetoire now, and although most of the phrases he uses are learned phrases, they are used more and more as genuine communication, which is wonderful. his sentences sound stilted as he often puts learned phrases together, but we are just glad that he is communicating rather than creating a wall of white noise.

one of the things that i think helped was changing the words to favourite songs to make them relevant to what was happening. he really took to the idea and it did seem to help him to realise that these collections of sound and rhythm could actually be related to his environment, and to also see that he could "play" with his learned phrases to make them mean something.

I think they see it as negative as in further evidence of the special need, but surely it's a really useful thing if in context?

ds is verbal with hfa/aspergers dx (so maybe this is less relevant) but and i've always seen his echolalia as a really positive thing (even though that when it's really apparent, it's usually when he is struggling)
To me, it's a really positive sign of him really trying to conform..to make sense of what is required of him...to order it...particularly when he is struggling with an overload of stuff.
So..with a time delay (it used to be a big time delay when he was little...but it is usually immediately after nowadays)...he echoes back exactly what i've said...and adds a bit at the front. ie What?..then usually followed by a really formal short answer.
i think he has learnt to use it to gain a bit of time too...he sort of lobs it at people when they are being a bit impatient with him

oh believe me you are making sense . celebrate it!

and of course it is encouraging. it means he is capable of listening, and of speaking. That's wonderful! So - is understanding the "missing link" between him and communicative speech? If so, that's great because you know what you need to be thinking about.....

For me, it would not have been at all helpful to treat the comment as if it was not echolalia (oh how I am enjoying using the past tense - it was only 3 months ago). DS2 used it - on his third birthday too - not as an adult would have used it but rather to play with language. I enjoyed playing the game with him and this helped us both with our turn-taking skills.

for you, of course, it might be different. Are most of his echos as relevant to context as the ones you've highlighted, or is it a bit more variable? sounds like it could be a great thing to analyse the echos and think about just how relevant they are perhaps? Perhaps in your case it really could be a stepping stone?

Anyway, I don't know anything about this other than what two echoing kids have taught me so won't mind if someone more knowledgeable wants to correct me. But I have very very fond memories of some of DS2's echoes. He still has some, but they are fading fast at home.

Forgot the most important thing!

HAPPY BIRTHDAY!