LINGLE -a film I think you'll like (Stan the Man/Floortime fans too)

[jimjamshaslefttheyurt]

I haven't seen this film - [[http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=CRSL4b_N7BQ only this clip] but from the discussions on the Floortime list I think you'll like it.

DS1 was very like the little boy on the clip at that age.

My opinion is that it doesn't matter if you call it autism providing someone remember to think about sensory processing - but that often gets forgotten.

I'll try again!

ooh look sphil, growing minds in ??? dutch???

ooh look sphil, growing minds in ??? dutch???

The boy ( in the first video) did not look that borderline to me but I'm not an expert and I have not seen many others to go on and from what I've read, early performance/indicators are a poor guide to eventual outcomes. There are some children on our Hanen course who are very high level and sometimes do wonder ( probably just if it is a good idea to diagnose so many at the higher levels. One girl is mainstream primary without support and has been advanced from P1 to P2 because she is so academically able - hardly usual even for HFA but still.

I think that's the point though cyber- that a lot of children being diagnosed have sensory processing disorders which can develop into autism. DS1 looked very like the boy in the video- still does often, and yet he is severely autistic (definitely). He's never had his sensory issues addressed though.

Stan the man takes a functional (rather than diagnostic) approach I guess. I'd be interested to see the whole film. Will investigate.

But yes I agree - he looked very autistic to me too! Perhaps its the definition of autism which is changing.

Oh thanks JJ! - very like ds too especially the flicking toast (ds had a thing about flicking drinks mats - he carried them with him!) and wheel spinning! I upset a nurse by climbing in his oversized cot in hospital to interact with him (ds rising- 2 burns unit -I wasn't fast enough)-it looked well enough engineered for it.
I liked the comment about mixed neurological picture. But isn't that what autism is?

oh look a website

Elsewhere someone is saying that children with autism tend to be very passive in their babyhood (ds1 was) whilst children with sensory processing disorders are at the other end, hard to settle etc.

I would think that sensory processing disorders can give rise to autism if they lead to enough boxes being ticked. I think (from other stuff I've read) that Greenspan thinks this too.

Funny how in the early days that severe autism (ds1) and a more 'mild disorder' (taking that phrase from the website) can look identical.

extremely interesting video, definitely strikes a chord with me. Even as old as 3+ DS had some of the same behaviours the boy in the video in terms of spinning buggy wheels and, more significantly, doing that sort of examination of objects (usually toy cars). now checking out the website.

DS was very passive as a baby (not sensitive to noise or cold), but hated being undressed, bathed etc, I even posted a couple of threads on here at the time. If he ever gets a DX, I'm going to bump those threads with a - see, I wasn't just being neurotic.

I get so jealous when I see their indoor gyms and swings. DS1 desperately needs that stuff! I spent half the Floortime course like this:

The YouTube videos are seriously addictive ! I could watch them all day. The Dutch woman was very impressive. DS1 was passive as a baby with some sensory issues ( scared of toys with noises and lights) but these have gone now - though he has vocal stims to replace them !

growing minds is great cyber

These are great - never seen GM on video before. The Graham one is fascinating - would like to see the film. I often think that Greenspan would probably not describe DS2 as autistic - he's too engaged with people.

DS2 had very very mild autistic traits as a toddler - his DISCO assessment had to be given to Lorna Wing to dx as the paed found it too difficult. But his sensory difficulties were very clear - probably more marked at that age than now.

Am also at the home gym.

Ooh thanks Jimjam. Very interesting. The little boy was adorable and helped me to imagine your DS when he was little - a cutiepie with good social skills who saw things differently. Agree with Cyber that his sensory issues came over very clearly from the video.

I was telling DH about you and your views on how sensory issues can effectively drive someone with good social skills at two into autism later on whereas with other people it's the social issues that are the core of the problem despite language developing normally.
We came up with our own little homespun theory that DS2 has a analagous problem to the sensory autism model you propose in that the "meaning" pathways didn't strengthen enough in his third year because the "rhythm" pathways were too strong due to some kind of underlying issue with how he processes language.
Who knows if we're anything like "right" (we'll never know of course) but the good news is that the discussion has remotivated DH who is the sort of person who needs a theoretical framework to go on. DH is a historian of science with a special interest in the history of the study of the origins of language (oops close to outing myself here as there can't be many of them) so although he has only an outsider's understanding of neurology he is very skillful at following arguments about how language develops(we even got a dismissive email about his work from Chomsky himself - wow that's fame!). So it was really helpful to have read your posts and discussions with amber/bullet and to have a positive theory to put to him to explain why I believe the way we are helping DS2 at home now is crucial and not just a sop for my anxieties - DH is taking the milk bottles out with DS2 right now and reread Hanen last night - so thankyou.

PS Your observation about how there are many non-verbal people diagnosed as autistic who have normal non-verbal communication skills felt like a real missing piece in the jigsaw of information. The incoherence of most descriptions of autism continues to annoy me though I know they are not written for me....

I'm not sure the non-verbal communication skills are normal (well not by the time they get older) because I think you need back and forth interaction to develop language and to socially typically. I think that interactions can look very normal though.

IN ds1's case as well as or because of sensory processing difficulties he hasn't developed language. So that seriously limits interactional possibilities and will have huge knock on effects. Like sphil's ds2 though we can also have very 'normal' interactions, but generally he needs to be in charge of those.

When he was little- at a stage where children don't really use language things looked very normal- probably because a huge area of his problems are centred around language.

Would be interested in your dh's opinion of Jill Boucher's work on autism and language if he's com across it. I find some of her ideas quite interesting.

Yes, I understand....