Autistic spectrum - what is part of it and what isnt, am i thinking to much?

[NattyTantrumAndEarAche]

i dont normally post on here, but im begining to doubt myself

ok my sons behaviour from newborn to now has always seemed a little perculiar to me, more so when i had my daughter and the differances between them.

im gonna list the things that worry me, and can someone tell me which are likely to be connected, and what it could be? because i think its autism, but i think when i mentioned it the docs now think im looking for problems.

first year

would not be held, and would not be breastfed from the minute he was born. he would arch his back to avoid my nipple.

was quiet, never cried for food, or if had a dirty nappy.

wouldnt meet my gaze, this has gone now, but until about 6 months of age would not look at me

would only sleep in a electronic swing, yet would scream if u held him and rocked him

needed rigid routine, otherwise chaos ensues

tantrums started at 9 months, started off as just 10min hissy fits over wrong temp of food, or wrong drink, or wrong anything really

didnt eat a huge amount, and finger foods only until a year.

slow to sit, yet crawled crusised and walked all in space of a week.

second year

no speech until 2years, no clear words till about 27 months. didnt say mummy clearly until 25 months.

tantrums lasting up to an hour and half, often resulting in damage to people or objects

will only play with two toys, microwave with timer that beeps, and trains.

self harms if frustrated or tired, bites and pinches himself

lines food/toys/objects up and gets very distressed if disturbed.

is very loving, in comparison to as a baby he is now OVER the top telling me 50 times a day he loves me and constant hugs

gets very upset if routine changes, doesnt like things moved (ie furniture in his room)

i dont know whether there is a problem or not, we have been referred, but everything took so long to come thru things had improved and they are "less concerned" ie speech suddenly came on, like a week b4 speech and langauge appoint.

i feel like im imagning things, and that this is normal behaviour, and the assessments are taking so long, and they keep saying come back in 4 months, which is no good in the mean time how am i supposed to deal with it now?

all his bbehaviour seems to be stuff he cant help, and the strangest things are important to him, like things have to be hung ina cetain way.

hello and welcome natty. My experience is more of the language delay side than behaviour side - and it sounds like you aren't concerned about language so I'm probably not the most useful person. Is he at nursery at all? If not, how do you feel he manages at toddler group etc if you go? As that I think gives you a inkling if his behaviour stands out from others his age. The limited play/long tantrums and self-harm do sound concerning. There can be a fine line between language delay and autism though - struggling with language can also lead to frustration and behavioural issues - so I think you are right to be concerned and pushed for assessment - but couldn't really comment and say - yes/no about autism. even if he isn't on the spectrum, the nas website (www.nas.org.uk) has useful advice about behaviour and communication, and this is a really good book:-

www.amazon.co.uk/Playing-Laughing-Learning-Children-Spectrum/dp/1843106086/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=book s&qid=1227475427&sr=8-1

there's no harm in getting autism specific ideas about how to work with your DS even if he doesn't end up being on the spectrum, it's still useful advice about play/behaviour etc anyway.

thank you TC, i will add that to my xmas list lol

hi my son has asd was only dignosed in may this year but myself and dp have thought he had since about 9mnths and he showed some of the signs you are saying in thread apart from he still has litle speech now but every asd case is diffrent jst like all kids good luck gettng advice help ect

I'm going to put something down BUT I'm very open to other more experienced mums correcting me (I won't mind honest).

From now on you're going to have two things going on in parallel. You're going to have professionals involved doing assessments and scratching their beards saying "hmmm". Eventually they'll reach a conclusion but it may take a long time. Meanwhile, you're also going to have to think about strategies for helping a little boy who clearly can feel very anxious and frustrated.

I think the trick is to help him NOW using your expertise as a mum plus resources that mums on this board can direct you to - not to wait for a diagnosis.

How would you feel about the following? How about researching the help and strategies that are available to parents of autistic children and using them to help your child starting immediately? I don't think my child is autistic but he does learn language in a way very similar to the way some autistic children learn it so I've sent off for materials designed for autistic children (a book called "More than Words" published by the Hanen Foundation www.hanen.org in my case but mums of autistic children here may have better suggestions). I also find it incredibly helpful to "meet" the autistic people and the mums of autistic children on this site. They directed me to the book that happens to help me most ("It takes two to Talk" also published by Hanen").

Similarly at nursery - you need one with a really pro-active attitude towards this. To give an example, I've just had a Speech Therapist recommend a programe called "time to talk" but the nursery manager has actually been doing this program with my DS2 for two months already - she just used materials left over from another child's course last year. And it's been good for him.

Diagnosis will probably take time - he may never need any kind of diagnosis - but thanks to the internet you can get on with helping him by seeing what works starting today. For me, this sense of "getting on with something" is very empowering and is the reason why we still have a relaxed and happy family life despite DS2's language problems.

btw, if your partner/parents/friends are likely to freak out at the word "autism" then just introduce the strategies without the word. They'll still work!

best wishes

forgot to add that if you don't know where to start try trawling old threads under "ASD" on this board where you will uncover gem after gem of advice. You'll discard the strategies that don't work for you.
Have fun taking control and helping your little one.

thank you lingle, thats very helpful
can u tell me (if u dont mind) how an autistic child learns langage differently? in simple terms of course i know these things can be complicated. id like to get 'inside' his head iuswim?

You need someone a bit cleverer than me.....

Can you post a bit more about how he talks? If you're not used to this kind of description/summary have a look at some of my recent threads where I describe what my DS2 can say and how he says it.

eg. "he says 2 and 3 word sentences " or "he quotes a lot from the tv out of context".

Or, if it's easier, why don't you write down some typical dialogues between you and him so we can all get a flavour? I find this helps me "tune in" and also gives me a written record I can look at a month later to assess progress.

All non-typical children are different so you need to provide lots of info until one of us recognises it and says "ah yes that sounds like mine...." . For instance, some children will learn the word "star" from singing "twinkle twinkle" but mine don't - they just get caught up with the melody.

Everyone has different levels of experience at this sort of thing so no one here is going to expect a beautiful essay! everyone is on your side.

If the thread doesn't get noticed after that, we'll bellow for Moondog who's great with these things.

I got some better advice from cyberseraphim. here it is. And I think you should phone your library and order "More than Words" published by the Hanen foundation. Other than that, keep doing close observation and record-keeping.

"It's a good idea to ask OP for examples of speech. ASD speech disorders are varied but the core problems are to do with failure to rapidly understand turn taking/perspective in use of language ( which requires a high level of mental functionality) . When/If language develops in an ASD child it may be simple/basic for the age, or may be repetitious or quoted from other contexts. In other cases, there may be little, if any, mental impairment but language is still slow to develop due to lack of social desire to please or to get attention. The OP mentions that her DC has speech so maybe every time he/she says a word or phrase - add more to it.
DS1 (ASD) is going through a cat obsession so I try to get him to talk about colours/sizes cats are/what they like to eat etc. Every time he makes a repetitive comment about a cat, I try to get him to answer a harder question about cats. "

We're lucky that our cat Molly is so tolerant - she puts up with DS1 shouting 'Our cat, orange/yellow cat' at her all day !
He doesn't know the word tortieshell but DS2 who is 24 months does because he sucks up language like a Dyson. DS1 is like one of those older models that struggle to get going.

Hi Natty

I recognise quite a few things you have put in your list, although my ds has not had a dx yet, we (myself and school) believe he is also somewhere on the AS spectrum.

My ds uses his language in an odd way, he has a very baby, singy song voice and will go up to other children, in their face and say "hello boy" he will also sing childrens songs but not one word will make any sense yet he could sing a song from genesis or U2 word for word.

I would say trust your instincts, we as mothers tend to be right

yes thomas also has that way of saying hello (hello baby/boy/girl in their faces lol)

he recently has started singing songs, but the words are jumbled or incorrect
ie. he sings "little little little star, twinkle twinkle yes you are" which is very funny to listen too!
he gets obsessions with things, has been through the cat stage himself, kids are funny arnt they lol.
im not too concerened with his speech, because although it was delayed he is making up for it now, and we do have odd conversations about things. he likes to explain how things work to me (like i dont know )
he does do the repeating tv phrases, more so from books i read him though. he says 'we're not scared' in the sing song way i do when reading 'going on a bear hunt' ususally when he sees a spider or something he deems 'scary'

he will ask me the same question over and over and over again, drives me nuts. but i know alot of other children his age that do that.

he has odd names for things, that he comes up with by himself, that we continue to use the correct word for but he takes ages to get it.
for instance he used to call flowers 'bubbles' for months and months, then suddenly one day called them flowers with no prompting from us.
his sister he called 'geghan' even though he CAN say ellen. he will also often refer to her as sister.
'sister put that down' if im telling her to put something down.
oh yes he does that alot to, repeats back what im saying to him or others/
yesterday someone on the other side of playgroup said 'you silly boy' and he with his back to the person was repeating 'silly boy, yes silly boy' thats very typical of the sorts of things he does

cos thats an essay im trying to remember things he says that are what may be considered different from other children cos they are all 'norms' to me lol