'sitting nicely' at s.a.l.t

[AmIWhatAndWhy]

DS had his first session last week. This really angered me, there was an image on the wall and she spent at least half the time asking him to sit up properly at the table. he is only 3 this month and was sitting quite well, in fact I'm amazed he stayed still for the whole thing.

Is this a normal thing, is there a reason why they focus on it?

Whilst I'm on a rant too, we were introduced to PECS but the very frst thing she tried was bubbles. DS loves bubbles so was clamouring for those, and not remotely interested in the things she introduced later, ie. an egg, wind up train. I mentioned next time to leave the bubbles til last but she didn't agree.

you need moondog(she is a salt)

Oh dear indeed, was it some sort of peculilar test? If so, ds would well and truly have failed at his salt appt on Monday, he spent at least 10 minutes hanging off the door handle of her office begging to go back to the waiting room to play with the musical farm there..

I think pretty much any 3yr old, language difficulties or not, could reasonably get upset if a toy they love is shown and then taken away. And as for sitting for an hour, I can't imagine ds doing that at 3.3 (apart from in restaurants where we're occupying him with books, puzzles and food!)

It was his initial assessment.

The salt was a student, is this usual?

Would not expect a student to do an initial assessment. Re:good sitting - good sitting/looking/listening are part of social skills which are within SALT remit - but if he was just a bit slouchy rather than doing a runner from table the focus on it sounds a bit OTT. Had one dragon SALT at a group insist kids sat with legs crossed!

Was she teaching PECS? If so it is essential that she only uses things that he really really really wants. So if he only wants bubbles then initially she should only use bubbles.

Has she been on the 2 days PECS workshop? If she hasn't she shouldn't be teaching PECS.

i'm guessing she was thinking posture important to be able to control air pressure and for blowing/ speech, and the bubbles were part of her assessment to see what his oromotor (not necessarily speech) skills were like - control for blowing is something that is an indicator of control of intra-oral air pressure or something deeply technical, and gives lots of clues as to which bits aren't moving properly/ at all. very unimpressive explanation and probably completely wrong (sure moondog will be along to correct me!), but we have supportive seating at slt for the posture reason, and always start with some blowing to warm up the mouth a bit - also licking exercises etc, before moving on to any sounds... maybe she just didn't realise he was quite so mad for bubbles lol?
was it definitely pecs? normally at an initial assessment they whizz through the pic books to see what he recognises and do receptive stuff, so 'what is it' as well as 'where's the dog'...

hanks to everyone. I'm not sure how well qualified she is for PECS. I've just received an email from the early years officer who visits DS's preschool to invite me to a 3 hour pecs workshop, I am quite impressed as I was hesitant to start it at home without knowing what to do.

The bubbles thing really bothered me as he was yelling 'more bubbles please' and she was persistantly offering him cards with an egg and a train on them, it confused him a little.

I can see your points about posture for speaking, but his problem isn't about pronunciation or clarity, it's that he speaks selectively, and very little. He is silent for 98% of the day, in stark contrast to DD who is a year younger and talks non stop.

i have absolutely no knowledge at all in this area... but thats never stopped me before

But im a bit puzzled as to why your DS is being introduced to PECS (espectially at 3)if he can physically speak and understand to a good degree/appropriate for age. [puzzled emoticon]

"The bubbles thing really bothered me as he was yelling 'more bubbles please' and she was persistantly offering him cards with an egg and a train on them, it confused him a little."

She shouldn't have been doing that. Are you sure its PECS you're using (did he have to exchange to get the item) or was it a choice board? Would ask the same question as misscut - his speech sounds very good- have they explained why they're using PECS?

He can't, he has severe Echolalia and does not ask for things or point, he just gets upset. I.e if he wants a drink he pulls my arm and leads me into the kitchen, I offer a cup and ask what he wants (if it's not the one cup he uses he screams) he refuses to say so I pour orange juice, he will say orange juice, take it, then throw it on the floor. So then I pour water, same again, until I realise he wants milk. It's trial by error.

The SALT said his language skills are that of an 18 month old. It's very frustrating as often he can say complex sentences in context, but he chooses not to.

Yes he had to give her the card, and then she'd blow bubbles.

oh OK PECS sounds good then, but she (the SALT) is doing it all wrong. If you're up to being stroppy I would demand someone who knows what they're doing.....

That bit is right. Ask her which phase she's teaching? She sounds like she's mixing phase 1 and phase 3 up. She should be asking you for a list of things he really really really likes and working with those not deciding he wants an egg (WTF??)

This was his initial assesment, so I am hoping the further sessions will work better.

I am very happy to kick up a fuss. DS's keyworker agreed she seems sketchy. Another thing she did that annoyed me, she was asking him to pretend to feed a doll, he kept saying 'silly'. he then turned his attention to the play kitchen and was cooking sausages and saying 'dinner for (DD)' and grinning at her. She asked him to come and sit back down and put the kitchen in the cupboard. Then she said he is incapable of pretend play.

We requested she emails us a copy of the assessment before it goes out to everyone, and I can't wait to sink my teeth into it.

Oh and she gave us some awful literature photocopied from an american book, published in the 80's. It suggests things like putting his favourite toy well out of his reach so he is forced to ask for it. Not appropriate at all imo.

"he then turned his attention to the play kitchen and was cooking sausages and saying 'dinner for (DD)' and grinning at her. She asked him to come and sit back down and put the kitchen in the cupboard. Then she said he is incapable of pretend play."

Oh dear God.

"It suggests things like putting his favourite toy well out of his reach so he is forced to ask for it. Not appropriate at all imo."

Some people suggest this- BUT you need to have effective communication in place first AND you need to be sure the child will care enough to ask for it. Ds1 never would, he would just have played with/fiddled with something else.

PECS can be brilliant, and if speech is coming but disorganised then it will help with that. I think you need to insist that someone who has been on the 2 day workshop does the training. Not someone who thinks she knows what she is doing, but is doing it all wrong. If you think you'll be using it a long time I'd go on the workshop yourselves if you can (we did).

Thanks so much jimjams, it's lovely to have fellow parents to give advice. God knows where we'd be if we just nodded at everything we were told.

How did you do the workshop? The one I've been invited to seems quite short to get full understanding.

That sounds like some locally run thing. You need the pyramid course scroll down to the basic 2 day workshop. Parents are usually half price.

Jimjams is right.
Sounds well dodgy.
Go on 2 day PECS course. 3 hour workshop will give you an insight but no way will you be able to use it properly without the workshop-2 day one.

Ask her if she has done it?

I get some frightening reports from salts (yes!) nurses and so on who think they are using PECS properly (I'm a slat)

They're not.

Thanks Jimsjams, there is one here in London in Feb, it's £140 which is cheaper than I expected. It's rather a lot for us though, but I think worth saving up for. Do you know how far in advance you have to book and pay?

And thanks Moondog, I have emailed her to ask.

Sometimes they get full- maybe email them and ask. The courses are very professional and well run. Worth if if you're going to be using PECS for any length of time.