So cofused ASD/Speech ,language disorder?

[Marne]

Up until a month ago we suspected dd2 was ASD, then a speech therapist mentioned speech or language disorder so we kind of got our hopes up thinking it may not be ASD.

At dd's hospital apointment i asked the doctors opinion, ASD or Speech disorder?, they said it was hard to tell at this point as she is still so young (2.8) and both ASD and speech disorders are very simalar at this age. They also sait she has some worrying social/comunication problems/traits.

This morning i spoke to her nursery teacher (special nursery) who agrees it is hard to tell but dd has alot of sensory issues so i'm thinking isn't sensory to do with ASD not speech disorder?
The nursery has refered her to OT, the problem is dd atends nursery in a different county (sommerset) and attends hospital and GP in our home county (dorset), we now have referals to 3 different hospitals.

Anyway all this has made me so confussed, i know its going to be a while before we get a dx (maybe 1-2 years) as she is still so young but i realy wan't to know if we are looking at ASD or Speech disorder.

Surely these traits;

Flapping
Sensitive to sound
Holding her ears
Obsesion with jigsaw puzzles
Non verbal
Runs off

are ASD traits, but;

Not a fussy eater
Can hold eye contact
Loves human contact
Loves different textures

are not ASD

Any advice greatfully recieved.

Sorry for the long post

The difficulty is that delayed language can affect a LOT - how a kid socialises/their pretend play etc. Sometimes there is a very fine line indeed between speech/language delay or disorder and ASD. I think all you can do is make sure all the areas that DD finds difficult are dealt with appropriately by the professionals. I say this as DX didn't get a definitive DX or not DX at 4- he has language delay and some social communication problems - so I was told it was "probably not ASD" but they wanted to see how other skills developed once his language developed.

Its so frustraiting, im useless at waiting

We are getting dx for her sister next month, it has taken 2 years, we are expecting a dx of AS but as she has change so much in the last year we are not sure if we will get the dx.

I know dd2 may change alot over the next year but some days i just sit and think 'dd1 may never speek' .

She has already showed improvement with eye contact and she can now follow simple comands (get drink cup, get shoes) but this is always on her terms. The speech is the main worry at the moment as she is almost non verbal (we get around one word a week out of her). She's doing great with pecs and seem to be more alert.

We're in the same boat. I'd just say that the techniques that work with autism are just as good for speech delay. Also bear in mind that every child on the spectrum seems to present with slightly different traits. My ds has normal eye contact,not rigidities etc, but does struggle with social interaction and with imagination.
There's another thread I started a bit further down that has more info.

Thankyou, its so nice to know that we're not the only ones going through this.

What does the ocupational therapist do? Dd's nursery teacher tried to explain but i didn't realy take it in.

At the moment we are using PECS and a tiny bit of signing, she is using pecs well and a few signs (shes not as interested in the signing). Up until a few months ago it was like she was stuck in a bubble, she didn't respond to our voices and didn't have good eye contact, now its like sometimes the bubble has gone other time it is back if that makes sence.

Get down on the floor with her and try anyway you can to engage her, even if for a moment. What does she like? Most children love bubbles.
For ds it was getting down with him and playing trains with him. Getting the trains to crash, being silly.

marne: very similar situation with ds (2.10). i must say that the more language he develops, the more the AS type traits seem to be reduced and more SLI traits seem to be emerging (idiosyncratic sentence structures etc). however, salt has said that his biggest problem is that he sticks to his own agenda, so i suppose we work with that for the moment.

We are using bubbles and puzzles on the floor (the only things she realy shows intereast in), at the moment she is playing with play-doh with her sister but seems to be eating most of it.
Just bought her an ELC answer phone on e-bay which you car record your voice on, she has shown some intereast in my home pone and babbles into it so i was going to record my voice and hope she talks back (not sure if it will work).

She shows some signs of imaginitive play with the phone and makes dolls kiss etc.. but this only started a few weeks ago.

Hi Marne

Sorry, it's such a stressful time for you and your family. We went through something similar with DS2 (7 nearly 8) who now does have a dx of asd. DS2 had virtually no communication and went to ICAN pre school nursery and during this time they picked up on more autistic type behaviours. Anyway, we were a bit gutted but proceeded with waiting for assessment (as you do). Had the assessment and didn't get a diagnosis - his speech was still too tricky and he works well on a 1-1. The professionals took the view that as the speech improves so will the behaviours so we ended up really playing a waiting game. Behaviours didn't 'improve' as such and eventually we had another assessment in February last year and we got the diagnosis of asd.

It sounds like you are exploring every avenue with DD and attempting to cover asd and language disorder. It is a stressful waiting game and it's hard not to have the answers but it has all worked out.

It sounds a bit simpy but sending you a reassuring hug.

Just got our next appointment through for dd2............. August 2009 , this is with the doctor/consultant she saw last wed. Looks like we are in for a long wait but hey ho, maybe she will shock us all by then .

That's outrageous!! Our paed (who has turned out to be very good) at first wanted to wait and see. We said no, lets do something now, and she quite readily agreed to further testing. It might be worth pushing a bit.
I get a feeling we have had such ready help because ds can be aggressive.
It sounds like your daughter might be a bit more passive and I think these children can be overlooked.
What's your gut instinct -ASD or language?

Hi Marne
Think we are in a very similar position to you. Our child is three this month and still not talking. He has been assessed for ican and special needs this week and they have decided he is not ready for ican as he absolutely couldnt sit at a table and do tasks for the 20 mins per day required. So we have got him three days one to one at his playgroup and he is about to start on pex. He doesn't have all the symptons you mention but he has no words, often screeches when anyone talks to him , wont wave or make any gestures. He is a bit obsessive about trains but otherwise no compulsive behaviour. He does have a problem in that he doesn't seem to be able to cry without retching.He won't look out of a window or at eg a plane that you point at in the garden which is apparently an " attention sharing" issue.
We are only now starting to get help for him as apparently funding starts at age 3. He has been going to a speech therapist since age 2.3 but this does not seem to have helped apart from being referred on. Hope things go well for you. I know how worrying it is.

Gut instinct is ASD, but i hope i am wrong.

Jellitot, dd1 used to do the retching thing. Speech therapy hasn't realy helped dd2, its only realy the pecs that has made a huge differance.

Marne - I have posted a message with links on this thread that may be of interest to you.

Some of the symptoms you describe applied to my daughter when she was a toddler and had just started playschool:

Sensitive to sound
holding her ears (because noise upset her)
Non verbal

I have no way of knowing whether or not you daughter has the same condition as mine, but it may help you to get it checked out.

Good luck

another one over here! I swing every day between thinking ds1 (3.3) has ASD or lang disorder. He is getting so much better at sharing attention, starting (limited) conversations, "it's raining" for example. He also checks our reactions to things constantly. Eye contact, physical contact fine, tantrums fairly infrequent.

He does sometimes hold his ears, interacts with others on his own terms, and has fairly limited imaginative play, although it is present. But - his language development is all over the place, and understanding is patchy. It's the comparison with his little brother, who at 14 months has around 60 words and is understanding lots, which shows me how behind ds1 is.

Wouldn't it be great if there were a quick and easy test which could tell you either way? This waiting and watching is utterly foul..

Same here. DS2 is 4.9 and has always had question marks over the ASD or not issue. Its looking more and more like a straightforward (!) language disorder, but the wondering never goes away and the not knowing is awful. Not because the outcome is so awful, but because you feel so helpless not knowing.

So hugs from me - and keep battering away trying to get your appointments. The earlier she gets help, the better, whatever the outcome.

Kettlechip - if your son's language development is all over the place and his understanding is patchy, I would get his hearing tested. If the hearing is normal, then ask about Auditory Processing Disorder. There is a link to more info here

Shells - I am wondering the same about your son.

thanks AJ. Auditory processing disorder has been mentioned before, and strangely, also in regards to DH, who was never diagnosed with anything but spoke unintelligibly until the age of 5 when he became fluent in weeks.

Is auditory processing disorder on the spectrum? I think of it as being an aural kind of dyslexia but my knowledge is limited so please correct me if I'm way off!

APD is regarded as a listening disorder and I describe our experience with it in the link I put in my last post. There's also links to other websites, that discuss all of this in a lot more detail. I think you will find it helpful.

I have to go now but I'll drop by again soon - good luck with it all.

Thats a really interesting link. I feel fairly sure that DS is affected by this. We're on a waiting list to have him tested.
Have been told it will be about a year....

AJ - when I've looked into APD, DS has fitted all the symptoms except for problems with pronunciation, his speech sounds have been OK for his age and needed no salt input. How important do you feel that speech sounds are to APD?

we've been there too, as ds3's speech improves its clearer to us that he has asd as his trats show more iyswim, but he's 5 now. hang in there- can be a bumpy ride

remember as well all kids are unique so labels wont ever quite fit I think, go woth your instinct. It's been so much easier since I relaised I can say 'I relaise he doens;'t have a dx yet (hopefully next month) but Dh and I both are certain that he does have ASD' rather than feel I cant name it because someone hasn't given me prmission, iyswim.

If he doesn't get a dx next month its off to a specialist psychologist to look at PDD-NOS as a dx.

Intrigued by where you live now LOL, Dh is from that way (Chard) but I may well have asked before because my memory is failing quite badly these days