Take at face value, or suspect sneakiness? (what are the LEA up to now...)

[silverfrog]

Another chapter in our schools saga!

To sum up: we want dd1 to go to ASD unit locl-ish to us. LEA appear to want her to go to special school. Head of the unit assessed dd1 as cognitively capable enough for the unit, but in need of too much support () as she is passive (she is 4, and, atm far from passive at home - wish she would show some of it to others though ). The special school does not currently have an appropriate peer group for dd1.

we have spoken to head of unit following her assesment, and she is adament that she will not take dd1.

dd1's case went back before Panel last week, and we got the result today.

They are torn as to what to do. They (LEA) are going to approach head of unit again, to see whehter dd1 can be admitted to the unit. They think "placement within a unit attached to mainstream would not be entirely inappropriate".

HOWEVER, they are also forwarding dd1's papers to the special school so that they can ascertain whether it is appropriate for dd1 (it isn't, IMO. They do not cater for mainstream ability at all. And their approaches would have dd1 running rings around them - she needs very clear cut handling behaviour wise)

So, are they genuine, or are they trying to sneakily get dd1 admitted to the special school while apparently trying their hardest to meet our wishes?

I so wish i could trust anything they say...

I would go with sneakiness, IMO they want the head of the ASD to write back with lots of reasons why it's not appropriate and the special school to say why it would be.

I agree sounds very sneaky to me!

that's what i think too.

The problem is, if dd1 doesn't go to the unit, there really isn't anything else for her in our area, and the LEA know this too. So the (tiny) optimistic part of me is thinking that maybe they will try to get her into the unit, rather than face the inevitable tribunal, and huge costs of out of area/private placement.

It really shouldn't have to be this hard

yes, straight into mainstream is out, as it is just too busy for dd1 9both by way of distraction, and just too many children - of whom she is quite wary)

my biggest worry is that this whole thing will become a sel-fulfilling prophecy. If dd1 is not stimulated and stretched, her behaviour at home becomes dreadful. Understandable really, she is bored and frustrated. It is only a matter of time, imo, before she starts doing this outside the home too (as soon as she realises it gets results!).

I agree that the LEA is giving the head of the unit a chance to list reasons why dd1 shouldn't go there, but the head's report was one of the main pieces of evidence at the most recent panel meeting, and they are still going back to try to fit her in.

i can see know why parents end up starting their own schools - dd1 needs mainstream ability wise, but needs a very small unit socially. She would still probably need 1-2-1 support within a small unit, at least to begin with, and this is the sticking point.

know now

could you ask LEA to copy you in on correspondence to head of unit?

might try asking to be copied in on correspondence - always handy to know first hand what is being said...

If dd does go to the special school, i can't see her going on to transfer to mainstream. we already have the proble where her SALT and the LEA ed psych think we are delusional as to her abilities (eg she can ask for anyhting she wants at home (and does!), is reasonably articualte (to a point), can count, recognise letters, shapes, colours etc - get her in front of SALT or ed psych, who wave around a plastic circle and ask what shape it is, and she really does give me a look of disgust as if to say "why on earth should I even bother?" or she points to the wrong shape (grinning madly) just to wind them up, so they are dubious at best about her abilities.

The local special school is very child led, and I can just see dd1 ending up reading books, singing, etc all day as she won't co-operate if they are too accommodating (sounds awful as though i am advocating Victorian-style teaching but dd1 really does need a firm hand) and from there it is a viscious circle. Her SALT is the SALT at the special school, and so I have a fair idea of the approaches they will use. dd1's strengths are often overlooked, even if she displays them as well - SALT was here not long ago trying to get dd1 to make choices - held out 2 things for dd1 to choose from (dd1 doesn't like either thing sufficiently to choose). dd1 went to get a book, brought it back, and said "SALT read Dinosaurumpus please" whilst offering the book. SALT refused as the words were a bit tricky - it's only a dinosaur book, ffs.

there is no way dd1 is going to a school where that type of thing will happen to her

Hi Silverfrog, we are trying to get are DD into ASD unit attached to a mainstream school she sounds very much like your DD just can't cope at all with big classes, but is quite bright with communication and sensory problems, this unit only opened in October so i don't know how successful we will be as i know there is a high demand for places, probably have no chance at all but we are going to try anyway otherwise it is back to good old mainstream this is her third school already, so next one will be her 4th. Don't give up fight to the end, good luck will be interested to see how it all goes for you because we will be in a similar situation in a few weeks time will cross my fingers for you that you get DD in ASD unit.

from my experience you cant ever trust the lea to be doing whats best for your child...the LEAs decisions are affected by many other issues, only you as the parent really think about what is best for the child.
The problem you are experiencing is exactly what i had problems with with DS. He is 8 but for 2 years i fought with the LEA....all our ASD units attached to MS schools are for children with mild/moderate/severe learning difficulties and DS is above average intelligence but struggles in all other areas of ASD. I kept being told that the local special school and unit did not 'provide the right peer group!' which completely infuriated me especially as DS had managed to alienate his appropriate peer groups in 2 MS schools due to his needs!
You have to be very clear that peer group is not as important right now as seeing you child settled in school and achiving academically and that you as her parent will take steps to ensure her peer group needs are met.
we got some help from our local outreach service and social services also helped and DS now attends a playscheme with other children at weekends to meet this 'peergroup' issue.
We won our battle by the way and despite LEA saying DS did not belong in a unit or special school and that he could cope in MS we got him into our local priory school!
Another tip is dont be afraid to approach some MS schools to find out if they could cope with you DD , we wrote to 115 ms schools who all said they wouldnt be able to meet DSs needs, this really proved our point to the LEA!!!!

Thanks, everyone.

The battle continues, and we are increasingly of the opinion that we are going to have to move area to get dd1 into a school that will suit her.

the head of the unit is saying that dd1's needs are too sensory based for the unit, and cannot be accommodated. She is basing this on the observations from her pre-school visit, where dd1 does, in fact play with the sensory things on offer (shaving foam, water/sand etc). She never does these things, or asks to do them with me at home (have offered several times, and she wanders off to read a book!)

Dh & I recken she is playing with them (we are at the water play as she is nrmally water phobic) because she has been trained to do so, literally. Her helper last year spent a lot of time gettingher to paint/get messy play with sand etc, and it is a good thing that she now does so. But in all that time, she was led away from books/letters/numbers to do so (as she was not communicating with anyone when she was reading), and she got strong positive reactions for playing with the sensory toys (and still does), so that is now what she heads for, as she craves social praise. She is rarely given the opportunity to show off her skills as they concentrate on the more basic (and important) foundations like sensory play.

Now that she is cooperating with that, she is being penalised for it, and we are told that as her play is so sensory based, she should got to the special school where their learning is sensory based.

we have meantime been to see a private special school which is aimed at language delays and disorders. She went straight in (with dh & I there too), sat in the circle at story time, and interacted well - paid attention to the story, got very excited at naming the animals as each page was turned and commenting appropriately on the story(, her keeping quiet and still skills need attention, obviously ) and helped create the days' timeline of activities. She had never been in the place before. she then sat around the table for the activity (planting herbs), and while her interaction was less (I was not sat beside her) she still sat there, and participated willingly, although needing lots of prompts.

dh & I then left ehr there for an hour or so (didn't think before we went that we would be able to), and (understandably, I think) although she was ok-ih with that, her communication really nose-dived.

The school are happy to take her for this nursery year (and are good - lots of SALT, OT and SIT goes on) and she could start as soon as we can move, but they are not committing as to whether she will progress to the school. They do not take challenging behaviour of any sort, and are a little worried by her ASD label, although they do have a number of ASD children in the school. Their position is that it is a week by week assessment of whether she is able to transfer to the school.

dh & I are minded to make this move, as the intensive approach she will get there will benefit ehr whatever else happens....

We have similar problems looming. DS1 is 4.8 but not due to start school til August 2009. We would like DS1 to go to an ASD unit at a local(ish) school. The Ed Psych did put the ASD unit on her list of recommendations for him but it has become clear that it is not a real recommendation and she would prefer him to go the MLD school instead. The Head of the ASD unit has not met him or assessed him yet so I don't know what she will make of him. I feel that I am trying to be reasonable in that all I want is the time he has to develop to be taken into account - I don't think he would be ready if he was starting this year. It's all so confusing. The Head of the Unit said that they have taken children with no language whereas the Ed Psych says that the Unit is only for children who will transfer to mainstream within a short time frame. DS1 is not in either of those categories but more in the middle somewhere. I did email the head of the ASD units in the city and she said that the units are for children across the spectrum. Actually the email was from her secretary and then I got a follow up email from the head herself saying that she hadn't realised the enquiry was from a parent.

I know what you mean about the sensory play. The nursery he used to go to was always pushing him to play with water and sand and shaving foam etc.

oh, it is such a miefield, isn't it, cyber?

we have had a response from the head of unit (we asked her to remove her personal recommendation for special school - even if dd does not fit in to her unit, it does not mean she should be at the SLD school) and she replied to use saying that dd1 has a "typical autistic profile, with spikes of achievement, and some defecits". so if dd1 is now typically autisitc, wtf can she not go to the unit for autistic children?!

I think the head of unit is aiming to only take children who transfer to mainstream within a short time frame, but the current remit of the unit is to integrate as much or as little as suits each chiild, over whatever time frame necessary (and the unit has just been designated as the autism specific provision for the county, in anew shake up, so will be expanding to take more children, I assume)

the head of units main point is that dd1 would freeze on going into mainstream, which she would, unless with a 1 to 1 she knows well. she is 4. I fully expect, with the right help, that dd1 would be able to integrate at somelevel in mainstream over the next 7 years, which is why I tink she should be given the chance

I think for us, we have to find out if the Head of Unit was telling us the truth when she gave the impression that the unit was more inclusive than the Ed. Psych had led us to believe. I know all 'mad mummies' say this but the Ed Psych has not seen him at his best, she has only seen him when he was at nursery. The therapists at the hospital (NHS) say that his speech is 'really coming on' and that he can answer questions well now but the Ed. Psych does not really believe that he can speak at all.

I have also been told by someone who used to work in an ASD unit that the places are highly sought after and that the parents who make the most 'fuss' get them. She said they had one boy ( was a unit attached to secondary school) who did not want to be in the Unit because he did not think he was autistic, no one else wanted him to be there either but his mother was so insistent that he get a place, that he got one in the end.

well, we are back from visiting an ASD nursery today. they would take her for this year, and possibly up to further year if needed (if LEA agree funding, obv).

So now we are torn.

The Sp&L school had smaller classes, and seemed like better SIT/OT (didn't see the facilities in person though)

The ASd school have a better handle on how to handle her behaviour, naturally, but have bigger classes (10 instead of 5-7).

Ho-hum, lots to discuss with dh tonight, i suppose