How can there be NO SCHOOL for my poor little boy?

[daisy5678]

J is 7 - ADHD, autism, sensory stuff, good academically and very verbal - and has a full time statement in mainstream. He's just transferred to the Junior school after a mixed 3 years in the Infant school, where they accepted a lot from him and genuinely cared and tried to include him even when he was very very violent. Maybe I've been spoilt by how well they treated him.

I knew the transition would be hard as I'd heard bad things about the stubornness of the Junior School HT. But the HT had attended all the reviews and child in need meetings when J was in Year 2, so knew exactly what he was accepting into his school and kept saying 'it'll be fine - he might be fine - if Infants can manage, we can manage'.

Well - J has actually made a better start than I thought he would. No violence to anybody - the worst he's done is taken some scissors to a wall. he was restrained and violent weekly/ daily in Infants in the final year. He's being very verbally aggressive, but I thing that's better than physically. He has a full time 1:1 who takes him out to the quiet room when necessary.

The problem the school are having is that they're not able to get him to comply when he doesn't want to e.g. do some maths. Some days he will refuse to do any of the work and will just roam around or want to sit and read. I know how difficult that is and sympathise, BUT I feel it is early days.

However, the HT decided last week that the school can't meet his needs and wants him to move on. J's teacher, who he had last year and who moved schools and has him again, now says that she doesn't think she or the school can meet his needs and this almost makes me saddest because she's always tried so hard and now she has given up on him and yet I feel he's made progress. I feel really let down by her because she seems to have changed stance since changing schools, perhaps because the HTs in the schools have such different attitudes.

What annoys me is that it was always said that the transition would be hard and yet they're expecting perfection after 6 weeks.They just seem to want rid and I actually feel quite betrayed by the teacher even though that might be unfair.

The major problem is that there is no suitable school round here. There's an EBD school (not autism specific) and an ASD school (aimed at less verbal kids with LDs and won't take any with challenging behaviour) and an MLD school (which he isn't). The units are all MLD. There's a Priory School costing 60k each year 45 minutes away but that would take a major Tribunal battle with my LEA and it's really an EBD not ASD specialism.

So what do I do? The added complication is that he has loads of friends at his school (all girls) and it breaks my heart to think of telling him that he has to leave. He'd feel so rejected and I can't see him ever making friends with boys. He's just so so girly. His whole identity is tied up with this local community and this school. He's so proud of going there.

I can't do anything or tip this a way I want it to. The LEA agree he should be in mainstream but is there any point in a school that seems to have given up on him? Or if they recognise that they have to give it longer or he's not moving, will they just try harder?

How long would you say it's taken your ASD kids to settle into new schools/ yeargroups?

Sorry to go on, just so

Thanks Melmam. He has an EP, a psych at CAMHS, an OT, a SALT and lots of behavioury/ autism professionals involved. If the school actually asked any of them for advice, which they have only started to really do last week onwards, then they might have some useful ideas. But most of them are a bit hopeless and, to be fair to the school, the current teacher has a lot of experience with J and so it's a bit pointless taking advice from someone who doesn't know the child as well as you and who hasn't tried all the strategies with said child a million times.

But yes, the EP has been asked to come in (but only on my prompting). I get the feeling it's all kind of box ticking now so that they can say they've tried everything, cos they know otherwise I'll say 'but you've not tried xy and z'.

It's weird though - I asked why he wasn't getting his behaviour support sessions like he used to in Infants and was told he still would in Juniors. Was told that he'll be seen next term as other children need the sessions and yet they 'can't manage' him

Ditto to the review - I would have thought that this is exactly the situation that requires an Interim review, but they're taking their time arranging one.

He should be able to go to his local school, with his peers who he adores and who accept him. I just don't know how pushed into a corner I'm going to get.

Givemesleep this is awful behaviour from your school. Poor DS and poor you!

Firstly, short of permanently excluding your DS (and this is a long draw out proceedure especially for a child with a statement), they cannot make you withdraw your son. If they start treating him less favorably because they don't want him there - then they would be on exceptionally dodgy grounds legally!

I have a 10 year old with AS, and he has not been to school since May. Pretty much the same situation as you, school just gave up and said they couldn't cope anymore. I took him out because he was not safe, and because he was very very unhappy, which is obviously not the case for you. Now there is nowhere else for him to go. The ASD provision is for the MLD kids and not suitable for DS (he's V bright and verbal). They tried to send him to the EBD school (I said over my dead body) and fortunately the pshycologist from CAMHS agreed that this would be absoloutely the worst place for him. He gets 2.5 hours a week of home tution at the moment.

I agree that you definitely need an interim review. Everyone needs to get around the table and talk about what is best for your DS. The LEA will want to do everything possible to keep him there (especially if you start mentioning independant schools), and will not make it easy for HT to get rid of him.

I suspect the teachers change in attitude is due to her new 'boss', and what ever she thinks she is towing the line.

i'm an sen teacher and i'm that the ht seems to have taken such a huge decision without a full review meeting.

if things were going very badly at this early stage, the first step should surely have been to call a meeting to discuss what strategies could be introduced.

even though class teacher has experience of your ds, this is a new class with new dynamics. perhaps ep should do an observation of ds in class to see if there are any triggers that the class teacher is missing?

i would have thought that only after an input from all involved, all strategies explored, attempted and monitored and a second meeting called to review the situation, would it be appropriate to even begin to discuss alternative placements.

situation re. behaviour support sessions sounds very strange.

i think it's useful to have outside agencies involved in a situation like this so that you don't end up feeling pushed into a corner. if there are a range of people involved, hopefully it won't end up feeling as though it's just you against the school.

GMSGMC did you try getting any information on Delamere Forest School, it may be a good option for the future.

I think that if you push for an early review and get all the outside agencies to contribute the school will be pushed to giving him more time.

Oh Givemesleep! Poor J! Poor you!! What brought this on if J is managing as well as or better than expected? It is utterly horrible when your child is 'not wanted'! But I agree with the others - surely the ht cannot do this!
Are there any suitable (private) specialist schools where J could board 4 nights a week in the future ( he is so little now!!) Surely if that was the only other realistic option the lea would do everything to support J with his friends - and support the ht with a kick up the resources!

no real practical advice but am very sorry that the HT is behaving so dreadfully. Hope you can get somewhere with an urgent review. AFAIK Delamere does take non-Jewish pupils.

I suspect the Head is giving you a heads' up of which way he expects things to go - hoping you will say "oh actually yes, I think he'd be better off at school X" and thus save him the bother of trying to fix it, or the long process of trying strategies before taking a final decision.

I imagine if you get all official on his ass (refer to non-provision of statemented support, demand a review meeting (which they will have to minute and copy to LEA) etc. etc.) then he should back down. LEA will not want to send a child to expensive specialist provision just because Head cba to go through the hassle of providing adequate support.

I think they take non-Jewish children if you live fairly locally. It is worth finding out because I know of other ASD children who have done really well there.

"I asked why he wasn't getting his behaviour support sessions like he used to in Infants and was told he still would in Juniors. Was told that he'll be seen next term as other children need the sessions and yet they 'can't manage' him"

Happy to stand corrected, but I am a Governor at a secondary school and was under distinct impression that 'the money folows the child'. If that applies in primary, are the school giving support sessions that the LEA are providing for your child to other children this term.

I feel really angry for you and J Its only been a few weeks ffs. My ds just started middle school and is also struggling with the transition which is exactly what we have expected. I got the LEA to include all his transition needs in his statement at the last review precisely because we knew it was going to be a very difficult time for him.
We also ahd an absolutely fab first school and so were spoilt

In spite of a few teething problems (like the school not meeting everything on the statement) his new school have been really supportive of ds. The HT takes a very active role with him and has taken the time to get to know him. I doubt my ds will really have settled into his new school until next term because xmas will get in the way of him really settling in by the end of this term.

Last year ds went back up to his natural year group (went from yr1 to yr3). He found just this move within the same school really hard even though he had the same TAs he'd had since reception. I don't think he really settled down then until after xmas either.

Does J's statement give him 1:1? If so has he got new TAs?

Transition is really tricky and my son had a pretty stormy ride through year 3 and then things got much better. Speaking as a SEN teacher, it does take real time to get strategies in place and understanding the child so you can prevent a 'blow out'. Also what works one day might not work the next day (but you know that anyway as a mum ).
The perspective that the school is coming from is that they have the learning and duty of care of all the other children in the class to deal with. I know as a teacher it is very very difficult to teach when you have a child who is not cooperating in any way (although if he has the full time 1 to 1 and can go out then that should be solvable) and it also sends a very mixed message to the other pupils (who won't understand the reasons why X is 'allowed' to get away with stuff when they aren't - from their perspective). It is possible (and we are in this situation at my school at the moment over a couple of our new intake who are very challenging) that some of the parents of the class have complained. Once the complaints come in then headteachers start getting very jumpy - particularly if there is a posse of pushy parents and the HT is not particularly SEN aware. I was really lucky with my son's school and they were brilliant at putting in strategies, etc to help. Some worked, some didn't but we persevered and all survived!

I echo an earlier poster who said that if the school is having serious doubts then a review meeting should be called. The school should be investing in training for the TA, getting in outreach from the ASD school, putting up reward charts/strategies and being very proactive. Only after they have tried a number of strategies and/or they can prove (documented) that having your son has a very negative impact on the safety and welfare of the other pupils (ie, he'd have to really attack someone big time) can they say they can't have him.

Sorry if some of this is not want you want to read. It's really hard. From a teacher's perspective he does sound incredibly challenging but from a Mum's perspective I think you have every right to keep him there and jointly come up with some workable strategies.

Good luck

Thanks for all your responses. Sarah - your poor son. What is your step?

I agree with you and Raggedrobin that a review needs to happen ASAP

VJG - apparently he would be one of only a very few below secondary age and they're apparently not able to take children with very challenging behaviour

Magso - yes, this Rossendale School (the Priory one) is boarding and I think the LEA will do ANYTHING to keep him in mainstream as they know it is the only realistic alternative, but you've hit the nail on the head: he is not wanted at the Junior school anymore and that makes me so so sad. I know his teacher's in a difficult position but I just don't get how she can give up on him when she must see that he's actually made great progress in key areas like not attacking people anymore!

The other thing is that I'm not sure how much more support the LEA can give the school. He has a full-time 1:1 TA through his Statement, for every single minute of the day. He's not taken to her and did adore the one he had last year, so that's not helped the transition run smoothly.

R3dh3d - I agree that he's trying to get me to take the problem on as mine, not his, but I don't have any more solutions than he does! And part of me has started to wonder if I am doing the right thing, because J does often find school so stressful. If only there was a good alternative.

Appolinaire - the behaviour sessions aren't actually written into his Statement; he's just always had them, as each school in the area gets a behaviour teacher for one half day a fortnight to do whatever the school directs them to do. But I just would have thought that J would be a priority for this support if his behaviour is such an issue!

Distystar - I'm gald it's not just me that thinks it's still really early days! I'm glad ds's school is being supportive.

Flyingmum - I am a teacher too and I do really get how hard it is for them. But that's partly why I fought so hard for fulltime support, so that he can be removed if disturbing others and taken away to calm down and settle. The HT has recently told all the children in J's year about the autism and why he gets treated differently from the others. I think the children accept him better than the adults do though!

I just think the school have decided - too early, in my opinion, as he's not yet settled - to give up on him because he's too much hassle. And I can't accept that, especially without any viable alternatives.

I think there are a few things that might help: 1) allow him to word process work, as written work causes meltdowns as his motor skills are so poor - he's been given an Alphasmart, so why is he never able to use it? 2) give him 1:1 time to work on appropriate language and social skills, as well as anger management type stuff 3) give him some time to settle in! 4) look at the TA situation and either hope it will improve or shift the staff around a bit. 5. actually seek some advice from experts rather than just saying 'we can't meet his needs'

Thanks for all your ideas. I will let you know how the EP meeting goes.

Dusty, not disty!

Hi

Clicker programmes really worked for my chap. He too melted down at the mere mention of writing anything.

Good the problem be with the TA???? I only ask because my son's year 3 was vv tricky partly down to one particular TA he had who always seemed to cause a meltdown. She was a nice woman but there was something about her and my son didn't trust her one jot. He couldn't express this - just went bonkers whenever he had her. Once we got the TA from heaven then things calmed down considerably. Its really difficult to go into a school and say that you think there might be somehing wrong though. I was lucky - the crap TA left before I had to go in with all guns blazing! If you live any where near Guilford there is a good school there that would have your son from year 4.

I am having the same problems with my DD just gone into a new school 6 weeks ago and from what the HT says has disrupted the whole school children and staff she keeps saying we haven't given up yet we will do our best but the message im getting is we are not giving up yet but will soon.

I agree with lots of other people on here that it is probably not the teacher that has given up on your DS, but the HT has decided to give up, some of these HT have alot of power over there staff and everything they say goes. My DD's teacher won't give me her opinion on anything without putting it to the HT first which i find very frustrating.

So hard for you both especially as your DS seems reasonably settled with some nice friends. I certainly think 6 weeks is not long enough to make this decision the school has hardly given him a chance.

Is the ASD school you mentioned Hillside? I have been looking in what could be a similar area to you at schools. Rossendale appears to be a day school as well with well over 1/2 the numbers having aspergers. It is very frustrating and very difficult isn't it. I am just looking just in case but am interested to know how you get on. All the best with it all.

wasuup - Not Hillside. It's called Inscape House. Great to know that Rossendale is ASD-usable, iykwim. Thanks for the best wishes.

Flyingmum - nowhere near Guildford, sadly! What's a clicker programme? Sounds interesting! I don't think the TA is helping BUT that's because he's taken a dislike to her - she actually seems very good and has lots of experience with children with ASD.

Kazann - sorry your DD is having a hard time. I hope they don't give up on her.

I think that's the most upsetting thing this week. Nobody in J's life has ever said they'll give up on him, not even me, and I definitely bear the brunt of the violence etc.

So to hear the HT saying he was basically giving up was upsetting, but to hear the teacher who I thought really cared about J say it too was just gutting.

Apparently there'll be a review in December which I know damn well is the Annual Review that should have happened in October pushed back. I know this because the SENCO told me last summer that they try to push the Annual Reviews back further and further each year so that the Y5 and Y6 Transition reviews can happen at the same time as the Annual Review so they don't have to have two

So I shall point out that they can't be that bothered if they're not even going to go with an Interim Review to prevent exclusion.

sympathies -my dd has started reception in september - she is autistic (aspergers with adhd and odd). We had a meeting at beg of oct (so just 4 weeks in) and the teacher of her class is finding it hard because she won't comply - ie finishing activities, joining in with activities and she finds it difficult because if dd doesn't do them theother children want to go off and do something else aswell. She has a TA who seems quite good and dd seems to like her but the head says it is quite a demanding day for TA as dd is quite fullon and needs constant 1:1. I just feel they knew this before she started there - we had frequent meetings with various bodies and preschool keyworker etc. i feel that if things don't improve the teacher will say she can't teach her. The head is quite good and says that if dd is getting violent etc the teacher should just try and get the other children out if that's possible and go and do another activity that won't stop their learning but i could see she wasn't too happy about that. I perfectly understand their concerns but this is something they knew about - also i believe for the forseeable future she will be like this - soem good days some really bad days and just because something's ok one day doesn't mean she's "cracked" that it could all go to pot the next time!!! I really sympathise as i don't knwo waht i would do if she didn't go there. Her peers seem to like her and so do the parents!!!!!

where abouts are you? because most sen schools have a pick upservice i live in leaminton spa but my sons school is 5 miles away he collected every day

Knat - exactly! We gave them a full picture of J when he was in Infants and in fact he was worse there, so now I'm like because they did know what they were getting! I hope your dd settles. That's the thing schools don't get: progress isn't linear. There'll be ups and downs.

Choccy - South Manchester area - there are very few schools within acceptable travelling boundaries!