How can you distinguish between language delay and ASD?

[nikos]

Wasn't quite sure how to title this. I've mentioned on the boards before that ds3 is being assessed for ASD. We have had the ADOS and DISCO questionnaire and in the words of the paed he 'doesn't tick many of the boxes for ASD' and 'he is a complex character'. His play therapist is also starting to doubt ASD as he has natural eye contact, a great desire to communicate. She also says 'he is a quandry'.
Ds has very good 1-1 support at his preschool and is coping really well, but probably wouldn't if he didn't. He interacts very well with his siblings but prefers to be on his own at preschool unless encouraged by support. He is a happy compliant boy unless out of his depth.
We are going for probably a diagnosis meeting in mid-November. I'm happy to have a provisional diagnosis of whatever if it gets him a statement and the support he needs for reception.
I suppose my concern is that if we treat it as ASD we might be missing something else. Anyone able to share experience/wisdom about this?

that thought had crossed my mind based on our limited sample of the late talking threads- that in families with aspie tendencies - the men go in for science/accountancy and the women go in for law!

KT14, Total, I don't think I've understood the plus side of a diagnosis yet. It gives you a "statement"... which gives you what exactly?... and does that vary be region?

KT14, it is a very flawed book, but I think you should at least consider reading The Einstein Syndrome before even considering talking up the symptoms. The book is very weak in lots of ways but full of testimony about the power of labels.

can I just add that by the time our boys are grown people will probably only communicate via internet forums and so they will be considered excellent communicators!

My understanding (and I'm still learning every day..) is that a statement will give ds' school a financial grant which will enable them to fund a LSA for ds, or extra SALT which might give him a boost in his early years at school. It varies according to the child's needs, and probably the budget of your region. I think it's definitely something worth trying for, as imo any extra help is beneficial at this stage, and esp as our ds' are such babies in their yeargroups.

Having an actual dx also enables us to go on Early Bird courses, ticks a box in the statementing process which means we can access more resources and is probably more necessary if we send him to the larger school we're considering, where he will be one of 60 in reception, with 2 teachers, and 2 assistants (divided into 2 classes!)

I hate the thought of labelling him, totally hate it, but one positive I do see is that giving it a name helps me understand his quirky behaviour, and if i can manage to explain it to others, it will help them also understand him. Does that make sense?

The irony is I'm a much better RL communicator! I sometimes re-read what I've typed, and think, I didn't mean that at all!!

Maybe that's the criterion for the desirability of a label. Is their behaviour so quirky that the application of a label would help other adults feel more positively about them and about helping them?

Again, the school starting age issue is making me very very angry.

lingle - a DX wouldn't inevitably result in a statement. It's a bit of extra added ammo for a statement. The availability of statements vary from area to area. My city is very very grudging indeed.

as KT says - there are specific courses run by NAS such as earlybird. Also some places have specific ASD teams - eg so you might get your DS referred to a SALT who specialises in kids with ASD. Also schools can ask for advice from specialist ASD professionals about behaviour/socialisation etc.

If your child has difficulty at school, the school usually will fund 10 hours of support. A statement allows the school to fund extra hours with money from the LEA. That would allow your child to have support for most of the day which is what I hope for ds in reception.
But a dx is by no means a guarantee of a statement, especially with high functioning children.
KT - I too am scared of the label if it is wrong but it would be worse if teachers didn't realise his needs as he would be constantly getting into trouble!!! And probably be very unhappy as well. I wish I could get inside his head for one day.

It's all so tricky, as we're not sure if ds1 would get a statement or not, I'd more or less decided on a smaller school with amazing ratios - 4:1 throughout the school, (goodness knows how) but he'd defnitely get more individual attention!! But have just had a petty altercation with the reception teacher and am questioning everything. Will start another thread rather than shamelessly hijack this one - opinions appreciated from you all though..

With Ds1 getting a label for him had nothing to do with how others saw his quirks and everything to do with ensuring he had a greater chance of getting support and help for his needs.

My DS got a statement without a dx of ASD (which he doesn't have allegedly).

Lingle, thank you for this: "I'm very very uneasy about these diagnostic criteria on the ASD/language delay borderline. If you can do English and maths and make friends, it doesn't matter if you lie down to look at your toys." You have made my day

Bullet - but I think they are both entwined. A lot of ASD/SLI behaviour due to stress can just look like 'naughty behaviour' and the child is treated as such. When the right help is in place, the negative behaviour decreases. I could see an undiagnosed child being perceived as the difficult child in the class and treated appropriately so I do think it changes people's attitudes to more sympathetic ones than exasperated ones.

Didn't know that lying down and looking at your toys was supposed to be as ASD thing. DD does that and I never really thought about it before!
It's a very grey area isn't it!
Always fascinated by whether these things are genetic. I can see a lot of me and DH in DD, we're none of us very outgoing sociable people, and I stumble over language when I'm tired or stressed. OTOH DH and I are both trilingual, so to have a child that can't even speak one language properly took us quite a long time to get our heads round...

No, I didn't mean that Nikos. What I meant was that I didn't get Ds1 a diagnosis because of his obsession with counting, or his need to wrap himself tightly up in blankets and keep his slippers on at night. I got it so that he would have help with his understanding, help with coping with situations he finds difficult, help with his self care skills (eg toilet training), that sort of thing. I didn't phrase it very well.

Castles - making your day has made my evening

Bullet123 - have looked at some of your other threads and completely appreciate that your little one needed help via a diagnosis.

Just had a very interesting and surprising morning, had a home visit from the ASD Senco in our area, who went to visit ds1 in preschool last week. Have been dreading the visit a little but ds1 was brilliant, he greeted them as they came in, was smiley and engaging. (who is this child?!)

The SENCO was great, and full of praise for ds' preschool and his progress there. She said that his desire to communicate, and good interaction with other children there(!) made her question whether his problems are due to an ASD. She recognises there is a communication disorder, possibly an auditory processing problem but feels that if he does sit on the spectrum, he is so mild it might not be worth diagnosing him.

She also felt he doesn't need a statement, or Early Action plus, so we've been downgraded to Early Action (all v complicated, not sure I understand it all) She also picked up he has a 10 second processing delay, which i wasn't aware of. In terms of starting school late, she said she wouldn't suggest it, given that he is already choosing to do the same work in nursery as the reception children, and coping.

I'm a bit gobsmacked to be honest. I knew there'd been some improvement in him at home, but it's as if she's talking about a different child at pre-school.

KT14, does he have any other signs besides the language that you feel would place him on the spectrum? How does he interact with the other children for example? What about routines/rituals/repetitive behaviour?

If it sounds like a different child to you I would be very wary about the sudden decrease in his support. Is what she saw, the same child that the pre school workers describe to you.

the autism research institute will do an atec score to see where you child is on it and that might show the difference between asd and speech delay learning difficulties, go to www.autism.com. some children's speech starts on the gluten casein free diet.. you could try that for six weeks my son has mild autism and developmental delay he is a dan protocol through a nutritionalist you may wish to consider this at www.treating autism.com, you don't have to be autistic to do this diet you just have to have developmental delay in most areas.....

bullet, no, I suppose he doesn't have any major signs other than disordered language, no rituals, routines or repetitive behaviours whatsoever. Eye contact perfect today but not always so good. He's generally very laidback and flexible with few tantrums. He does hold his ears occasionally though, and lie down close to toys when tired. If he wants to do something (run in and out of the automatic doors in B&Q yesterday), it can be hard to explain to him and make him understand why he can't. had to carry him out kicking and shrieking in the end.. Think that is probably more to do with his language skills (and age) than anything else..

His interaction with others is very immature, but coming on as his speech improves. He can recognise and name "friends" now and likes to greet them with hugs.

The preschool teachers have noticed the same, and I've definitely seen it today. It's as if something has suddenly clicked and he now really wants to share and communicate. The last time we had this sudden change was when I took aspartame out of his diet, am now wondering if something similar has caused this but can't think what it could be. Might start keeping a food diary.

And thanks for the link pushkar, will have a look. Was about to trial going casein and gluten free anyway, so will see if this has more effect. The improvements were fairly dramatic after removing aspartame so we'll see.

and the other good thing that came out of the meeting is a referral to some new SALT program in our area which allows us to access regular private SALT through the NHS. Fingers crossed for that one, couldn't even find a private SALT round here when i looked last year..

Sounds like he's doing great KT. Figuring it all out in his own sweet time.

The SENCO's comments are consistent with the teacher's (tactlessly expressed) view aren't they? I think I'd be tempted to award myself a few weeks feeling relaxed about him in these circumstances......bet your DH would like that too.....

and at least he can find his ear! DS2 was astonished to discover his ears yesterday when I taught him the word! I really think he didn't know they were there!