does this sound like an asperger child?

[iamafitmama]

dn(dear nephew) is five and last year his teacher suggested he might have some behavioural problems (maybe aspergers) as he seemed to have problems forming friendships.

He didn't know anybody at the school as the family had recently moved and didn't seem to make friends easily.

my sister in law got very worried as until then no concerns had been raised and we all thought he was a happy, normal 5 yrs old.

Anyway I confess that since then I find myself observing him more than before and I am puzzled because I thought asperger children were not sociable or would look odd socially but dn:

• Loves to play with other children
• Pesters sister in law to have playdates
• We have been to family parties in the last couple of weeks and dn has spent hours playing with the other children (children he's known since he was born)
• During the abovementioned parties he behaves extremely well, is polite and tries to share and takes turns.
• During last party he was asked if he liked to play with his playmate let's call him X to which he replied: I like to play with X because we are interested in the same things.

To the experts on here, does this sound like an asperger/autistic child from the description above?

thanks if you have read so far and tia if you answer just to put my mind at rest as I am very close to sil and wanted to be well informed and not talk gibberish when I am with her.

I would recommend www.nas.org.uk (National Autistic Society website) for more information on Aspergers. Some kids with ASD are sociable, and may look fine socially - it's only on closer analysis of their conversations something might seem slightly askew. Is sister pursuing the teacher's suggestions further and looking for any sort of professional assessment? If the little lad still has trouble making friends at school I hope teacher/senco are trying to help with this.

Imposssible to judge from the little information you give.

My friend's dd with Aspergers is very sociable and friendly; it's more a case that she is over-friendly, as she does not recognise boundaries in the way other children of the same age do. Also polite to adults and appears normal, unless placed in a situation where she herself has to make a judgment about social boundaries, other people's reactions etc. She was not diagnosed until she was about 6 or 7.

my 3 (all with AS) could be described as....

Friendly
sociable
love to play with other children

AS does not mean a total abscence of these 'qualities'

How would you nephew cope if he were in the middle of watching favourite TV show or playing favourite game and was told to STOP IMMEDIATELY?

How about 'multi step tasks'..ie being asked to go upstairs, get dressed,find shoes, put them on?

When he's being sociable...does he 'dominate' the conversation/play? When you say he takes turns does he do the same with conversation...or does he need to chat away (all be it very cute and politely) about 'his' thoughts...His toys...

How does he cope at social gatherings that do not have children he has known all his life...would he then prefer to talk to the adults...or would he enjoy playing with children he has never met?

He requests playdates...but does HE get INVITED to playdates/parties.

Do other children 'keep telling tells' about him to teacher?

If SIL dropped him off at school friend's house for the afternoon...or had a new babysitter...unfamiliar with DN ....would she feel she needed to 'explain' any 'funny ways/food peferences/bedtime routines (favourite books etc) etc'.....this is a good exercise- as it often highlights difficulties you don't notice day-2-day...as we get used to our DC's ways.

Does he have any siblings?
would you say that his homelife is very structured...and he therefore may not 'show' his mum any concerns...alot of AS is 'simmering' up to age 6/7...the differences with peers become more obvious when in yr2.

mum23asd thanks for your questions - replies below (sil dropped by after school run and is with me now and helped. she is very intrigued too)

Totalchaos - nothing pursued as there's new teacher now and he seemed to have made a couple of friends he plays with. The school is still trying to say he needs extra support though.

How would you nephew cope if he were in the middle of watching favourite TV show or playing favourite game and was told to STOP IMMEDIATELY?

He would start crying/winge/generally be unhappy for a while until he stops suddenly if he's distracted by something else. SIL says that he's absolutely fine if he's given warning though.

How about 'multi step tasks'..ie being asked to go upstairs, get dressed,find shoes, put them on?

np about this, he can dress himself fast and well without being prompted

When he's being sociable...does he 'dominate' the conversation/play? When you say he takes turns does he do the same with conversation...or does he need to chat away (all be it very cute and politely) about 'his' thoughts...His toys...

He used to dominate conversation when he was 4, but since last year he's more aware of the others and will ask questions like "which bit did you like about the movie?" "what's your favourite toy" etc etc and wait for answers and get clue on answer to carry on coversation.

How does he cope at social gatherings that do not have children he has known all his life...would he then prefer to talk to the adults...or would he enjoy playing with children he has never met?

Same her, huge improvement in the last year. He was a nightmare until last year, but now will play with new kids at parties np

He requests playdates...but does HE get INVITED to playdates/parties.

He's normally asked back, but difficulties in forming new friendships on his own

Do other children 'keep telling tells' about him to teacher?

never...

If SIL dropped him off at school friend's house for the afternoon...or had a new babysitter...unfamiliar with DN ....would she feel she needed to 'explain' any 'funny ways/food peferences/bedtime routines (favourite books etc) etc'

not really, she's left him with me and he more or less fits in. likes his toys and books and will watch telly. Adores my 6 months old baby and plays with her

Does he have any siblings?

yes, a 1 year old sister. Birth coincided with him starting school and moving to new area.

would you say that his homelife is very structured...and he therefore may not 'show' his mum any concerns...

Mum says no, she feels since baby arrived she's not very organized...

bump...

Is he coping all right with school work? He doesn't sound at all AS from what you describe. What are the behavioural problems they are finding at school?

I think I'd be more inclined to put most of the problems down to moving area/starting school and new baby.

nikos - he struggled at first, and was bottom for a while.
I think because sil was quite relaxed with him as he was only child for a long time. She agrees on this

I helped out with his writing and reading as sil had hands full with newborn and I was not working and pregnant.

He is now above average in the class.

New teacher is reading from last years notes I guess.
I believe dn felt pressurized to make friends at school and felt it was a bit of an issue for teachers and TAs. He sometimes tells sil that nobody in the class likes him, but then when in playground or at school parties he plays really well with a few kids from his class and mums have invited him for tea...

sil is split between pursuing it to get to bottom of things and letting it go so not to create a bigger issue for dn []

I thought new baby could be casue too - but he really wanted a sibling!

It seems odd that a teacher would raise concerns over what seems qite flimsy things wrong. Is he disruptive in class?

not at all - maybe the opposite.

Previous teacher used to comment that he didn't pay attention to what happened in class and seemed to be away with the fairies.

He can be quite shy in new situations/with new people (adults), it takes him a long time to open up.

Not sure this is the right question to ask in this board, but I have always wondered what is the difference between being very, very shy and being on autistic spectrum for lack of social skills? Is there any connection at all?

It takes varying guises. He may crave having company and friends yet not really understand the way to make them, respect social boundaries and cooperate to keep them or be overly bound by rules reacting negatively when another child doesn't conform. He may behave differently in more familiar circumstances with routines formed around him and preparation than at school.

thanks lizs- anybody else?

If he has ASD then I have seen many who show those signs and more of them, and have never labelled - these are 'only children' who simply do not get the corners rubeed off in the same way that children with siblings do, and getting more undivided attention from adults come to expect the same from contemporaries ( and as his sister is only one, this would fit.) I would be VERY wary of a teacher bandying about a diagnosis like this -in fact she should be more circumspect - would be surprised if she is qualified to assess. My DS2 had a NQT in Y2 who was eager to find 'syndromes' in children, and my Ds was one of several she 'diagnosed' with various disorders she had learned about on her course. He has tuend out to be as 'normal' a child as any other, as have the others with various 'special needs', so we have put it down to a surfeit of enthusiasm...

No it doesn't sound like my experience of a child with aspergers tbh. Haven't met another child exactly like my boy though. Someone once said to me that each child is different.It's like a graphic equalizer..some areas turned up and others low.
Does he show any other signs?. Do you see any signs yourself?
For instance...Does he have any obsessions? or specialist subjects ) panicky episodes? Does he like imaginative play? can he imagine what it would be like to be someone else? Can he guess what someone else might be thinking?
Have a look on the nas website for further ideas

thanks for answering all i asked!!!

your reply "He used to dominate conversation when he was 4, but since last year he's more aware of the others and will ask questions like "which bit did you like about the movie?" "what's your favourite toy" etc etc and wait for answers and get clue on answer to carry on coversation."

says alot to me!!! My boys never show any of these skills....so that in itself would tend to not indicate AS.... cos though my boys are sociable and chatty.... it is all really only on their terms and at their level...so ds1 for example (14) talks like a professor about anything computers...regardless of glazed eyes on all around! DS2 (11) will appear to engage and ask someone questions...but manipulate them with 'multi choice answers' often to get the answer he requires.
Ds3 is a good conversationlist...bit more interested in what others have to say- but struggles with taking things very literal- or needing excessive details- also uses made-up words to describe things- feelings or actions...which may or may not sound similar to the 'correct word'... and therefore can appear babyish- hence his preference to play with younger children

I too think it's very odd for a teacher to wade in with the word Aspergers with what sounds like no prewarning.

Troutpout - his favourite game used to be to pretend to be an animal. (cat, dog, lion etc)
He sometimes pretends to be a pirate or a ghost(this is what I have seen).

He has obsessions which come and go - it's Ben 10 now it used to be power rangers before and Thomas the tank engines before that. Buy he will play with dolls when playing with girls.

The only sign that strikes me as odd that I can see is that sometimes he will talk about something and I don't have a clue about what he's talking about. And then it turns out it's linked to something I have told him 3 weeks before (he's got an excellent memory!) and that sometimes he interrupts adults talking to say something completely unrelated to what they are saying.

Teacher seemed quite keen to have him assessed but head put brakes on. It turns out she's done it with other children at the school. SIL wants to do what is best for dn, but cannot bring herself to trust said teacher...

mum23asd - your dcs sound lovely!!!!

your ds2 sounds like one of the guys who work in dh office earning big bucks!

thanks! Had a 'difficult' and noisy time this morning....so feeling very stressed as i sat down to check MN...so to read your comment was a welcome boost!