Why do people feel the need to bring up SN all time time?

[helpfulornot]

I have posted another thread about DS1's behaviour at school.

AFAIK, he has no SN, and I posted it in the Primary Education topic.

Why do people feel the need to use SN as an excuse or explanation, when it has not even been mentioned?

The only way people brought up SN in the other thread was in the context of 'this is what should be done assuming there is no SN'. The reason for putting it this way is that children do occasionally get unfairly punished for things which they cannot help, because they turn out to have mild behavioural SN. It's about wanting to make the best suggestions for a child by making sure that we have understood all the issues.

Those of us who have children/friends/children's friends with behavioural issues have heartbreaking stories of children who have gone on being punished for years because nobody understood that they had genuine SN problems. My friends' dd had done several years in primary school before anyone realised she had mild Aspergers. Naturally, before that she got punished for the same things as everybody else. And she got punished a lot...

You speak as if you thought there was something offensive about the suggestions of SN.

To rephrase it:

if your son has any SN, he would need special consideration and a line of extra strategies to distract him before problems happen

this probably would require extra resources

there is no way a teacher can manage to do this with every single one of a class of 30 children

an NT child who kicks and spits needs to be dealt with in a more summary fashion.

IME this means missing playtime if you play up or show aggression (as the mother of the child who was at the receiving end of aggression, I was profoundly grateful for this!); it means being taken out of the dinner hall if you are disruptive; it means being able to cope with disappointment without kicking and spitting at the teacher. This is what most 4yo are expected to cope with.

therefore it is appropriate to the issue to establish whether he is a boy with need of extra help or not. There is nothing offensive about this! it's about wanting to do whatever is best for him.

Please don't be offended if the school mentions SN; they have to explore all options. It seems your boy is a little unusual, and that you are also asking for him to be treated in a way that is a little unusual. They can't do this if they are not allowed to discuss this openly.

I don't understand why he is only four in year1. Before you jump to conclusions about ANYTHING (including a sticker being 'taken away') talk to the teacher. Maybe he screwed up his own sticker so it was put in the bin?

she wants them to say that her lovely darling child is perfect and the nasty horrible teacher was over reacting. she is a teacher and should expect to get kicked and spat on.

and how very dare anyone suggest that her PFB may be imperfect!

are you still reading our replies helpfulornot ???

Calm down, Mamazon. It is bit upsetting when someone goes on the SN board and speaks as if mentioning SN was something horribly offensive - hardly tactful, you might think in this particular place - but this is a parent who is very worried. I think we should cut her some slack.

But helpful, in the long run you need to focus on doing whatever is best for your ds, not what feels best for you. This may be letting the teacher punish him, or it may be getting a dx of some sort. But what it won't be- that's for sure- is burying your head in the sand and thinking that only I can deal with my ds. Your ds is growing up, other people do need to be involved in his day.

My nephew has spent a year in a class with 3 children with behavioural difficulties (probably ASD) whose parents have refused to have them diagnosed and given special help. Not only have all the other children been unable to learn, and the teacher gone off with a breakdown leaving an endless stream of supply teachers, but those 3 children have had an utterly miserable time.

The bottom line is- your ds may or may not have mild SN. But he can't carry on like this; he will be unhappy. That's not what you want for him.

Your sticker chart at home doesn't seem to be helping him at school. The school needs to either be left to enforce discipline or (if they do believe there is an SN issue) to call in help. But doing nothing isn't an option and trying to manage it from home isn't an option either.

FIo's point about copying is a good one; ds2 often copies his brothers ds1 and ds3 (both asd)- indeed if you met him sometimes you migt think he has asd but he doesn't, just grown up with it.

where CT??? in SN???

missing MNer thread

Thanks for your replies, I have been out with my DS2.

I agree that his behaviour is unacceptable, but because it is so new to him, only within the last couple of weeks, and having received a frankly glowing report from him from the nursery teacher (from the same school) it does make me think something has happened at school to dash his confidence, make him playup. Maybe the fact he is behaving so the teachers (rightly) feel like he needs "punishment" is in a way fuelling his bad behaviour. I am not saying he is perfect, just that something as happened, and given things have actually improved at home, I am led to believe something has happened at school.

The school needs to punish him, but equally, if the punishments are not working they need to try another tack. Hence my posting here as to strategies that may help him. I did not post here to hear that what he does is OK, because it's not.

We are seeing the teachers tomorrow, FWIW.

Ok, Presuming he does have an SN, how should his behaviour be dealth with? Obviously the "normal" way isn't working...

I only have experience of GDD, in an even younger child.

Thx

Holy shit .. that's offensive as an OP in SN if you ask me!

you spoke about antisocial behaviour and your 4 year old spitting at an adult in authority (TA) .. you gave the examples with explanations for the behaviour (that read like excuses ... sorry) and asked us to judge the school for being unfair .. impossible to do.

Nobody lambasted you from what I saw.

I may be reading this wrong .. but you sound like you're full of ire against the school and full of excuses for your child. You really need to work with the school so I'd go in and speak to them and ask their advice.

One person, from what I saw, asked whether your child had any SN which WOULD have made answers rather different (presuming they were developmental or neuro)

And yes you can stop an NT 4 year old spitting .. it takes consistency and immediate and firm action every single time .. I say this as the mother of a spitter (ex-spitter) who is 4 too and moving into reception next year.

I'm slightly riled now .. haven't even read thread yet.

I didn't mean to be offensive, sorry to all who took offense.

How did you get your DD to stop? This is only new behaviour, and he doesn't do it at home.

Thx

Well if he's not spitting at home, in your company, you need to speak to the school and let them know how surprised you are to hear he is spitting.

It sounds like you're planning on going into school to discuss .. I think that's a good step .. ask them for an outline of the behaviour-management strategies they will use and tell them you will support at home.

With 4 year olds it's all about immediacy.

(sorry for snapping .. I have short fuse today)

It's impossible to generaise with SN but if this was happening to one of mine with ASD I would begin by looking at what is happening just before each incident. Obviously you are not at school to see it for yourself but it's worth asking the teacher about. Do other children get too close to him, for example, and he swings the bag around to get them away from him? Does the teacher lean in too close and he uses spitting to get her away? It may well be none of these things but finding the cause can often give you a big clue to solving the problem.

If you have an idea of why it's happening you could probably then look at either avoiding the trigger in the first place (not always possible) or teaching your ds a new way to deal with it. An example could be my ds2 (AS) who would sometimes get upset because he couldn't tolerate the sound of other children singing. Obviously it's not possible to stop everyone from singing because of one child so ds2 was given permission to take himself off to a quiet corner if he felt that it was getting too much for him.

Of course it may equally be that he's an NT 4yr-old copying something he's seen elsewhere and testing the boundaries at school etc.

Thx.

And hopefully the teachers will be able to tell us if they think his current behaviour is not just a phase....

Coppertop, thank you too, that is actually exactly the sort of thing I was looking for.

I have posted earlier, and it does seem to me that in each case there has been a trigger (not an "excuse"), but something that may be able to (irrationally) explain his behaviour.

Anyway I am repeating myself, I am sure there are much interesting threads out there than this! May post tomorrow depending on what the teachers say (hopefully they won't throw him out...)

Thx

Of course they won't throw him out! I am sure everybody will want to help. It just sounds like you need to talk it through very carefully with the teachers so everybody is singing from the same hymn sheet. If you go in open to their suggestions, hopefully they will be open to yours. If they do think he is struggling they may suggest somebody coming to observe him, or some sort of Individual Plan for him. Try to listen with an open mind- whatever works best for him is what you want, really.

Mamazon my god how rude.

Helpful, I hope everything works out well for you.

When I first found out about dd, I was in huge denial. It's not uncommon and many people would deny a problem. It's human nature I think.

I wasn't insulted by the op or by th e title.

Can only be quick, as I have to go and make cupcakes but when I picked him up today, the teacher told me he had a really great day today!

Still seeing her tomorrow, but am so happy!

Thx for your responses,

Have only read the first few posts, sorry.

I don't think it's unusual for children to regress when they start full time Reception. My ds started ft yesterday and wet himself twice and been rather shouty at home.