would like some advice on ds 2, newbie.

[porgie]

ds 2, limited speech, about 15 words, not joining any together, been refered at 2 year check. very "active" constantly climbing, running, jumping off things, climbing over safety gates. hits/headbutts other children, hits when excited, watching dvds and bad characters on. ignores sister 7 weeks, has shown virtually no interest in her. been to enroll in nursery today, explained about referral, they have phoned back and said he can't start till he's been to GP. then he may need one to one, which they can't provide so they will have to get someone in. who pays for this? am sick of everyone saying he's just a boy, am finding it hard work, especially with baby. advice welcomed xxx

So he's been referred for Speech Therapy following the 2 year check? Or has he been referred for some sort of behavioural assessment? And is it the nursery saying he can't start until he's seen the GP?

hi porgie

haven't really any advice but I think the nursery are being off. Your son's early years education / childcare cannot be put on hold. Referrals / assessments etc don't exactly happen overnight. How unfair. They ought to get to know yr son and respond to his needs accordingly. Are there any other nurseries you could try? (in these situations I've always had the ohbolloxtoyou attitude - not the sort of place I'd want my dc to be anyway)

You sound like you've got yr hands full with new baby as well. I didn't know what hit me when I had ds after dd

From what you've said, it's way way off anyone deciding that he needs 1 to 1 support at nursery. To get anywhere close to that he needs a formal diagnosis of something and then an assessment of his educational needs, and then a Statement of Special Educational Needs. There may be some pre-school funding for extra support, but that would be the Local AUthority doing the funding, not you. If he needs Speech Therapy, that often kicks in really quickly and they can work wonders.

To be honest, a lot of what you've said sounds like pretty standard 2 year old boy behaviour - my DS3 was a nightmare at that age - biting other kids, snatching toys at playgroups etc. He's 6 now and is lovely . Plus, the new baby must have thrown him a bit - keep reassuring him he's loved and try to find a bit of time with just you and him.

he has been refered to speech therapist, but waiting time up to a year, tried talking tots last week but he kicked off. he has also been refered to a gp for a further assessment, don't know quite what that involves. nursery says he can go on hour trial visits but not to start properly until gp assessment.

at the nursery's attitude. I'd love to know if they're even allowed to get away with such blatant discrimination. I'd also be very interested in seeing what their SN policies say, although I understand completely that you don't have the time or the energy for that, especially with a 7wk-old baby.

Tbh it sounds as though the nursery have little or no experience of SN. I'm not sure what exactly they're expecting the GP to do. They're also making a heck of a lot of assumptions. They can't possibly know whether or not your ds will need 1:1 help. Even if he did, they should be the ones applying for funding. The fact that they don't even know the basics makes me wonder whether this would be the right place for your ds.

Sorry. I forgot to say welcome to the SN board, Porgie.

soory can't advise, but wanted to say hello

Welcome.

Who knows, there may be an issue.

But an acquaintance of mine had an identical son to yours at that age. My, oh my, how all her "friends" liked to discuss him.....and suck in their cheeks.... Eventually, she called our (sane) health visitor who said:

1. A 7 week old baby is not interesting for a boy with those interests.
2. Buy a trampoline.

I hope it's that simple for you.

Rather than feeling that you are just "waiting" a year for speech therapy, I recommend you buy "It takes two to talk" by the Hanen Foundation which will show you how to become your child's chief helper when it comes to speech. I wish so much I'd had it a year ago .

I think you need to get better advice about a nursery place as you need some time to focus on the baby. Is the HV any good? Could you tell her that a nursery place is a priority irrespective of what any assessment may say? Why are they refusing to accept him if nothing is known about the future assessment?

Many apologies Porgie - just saw that you are sick of being told he's just a boy...

dammit, you'll probably ignore what I said about Hanen now too........

I shall shut up now.

agree with cyber. find another nursery that is happy to work with you both. if your DS did need one to one, a nursery should be knowledgeable about local procedures about how to get funding for it.

welcome porgie, congrats on the baby

Nursery is often more important for a LO with speech concerns as it can bring it on immensely

Are there any other options? does your council have a childcare advisor or is there a surestart with a childcare advisor?

Ask the nurery btw to put in writing why he cannot start yet.

i had very little support at that age my ds was just like your ds

it could be alot to do with frustration not being able to express himself you can down load picture cards someone told me so when he wants something he can point at picture and you can verbalise what he wants

also verbalise your every move i did this and the more he understood actions to words his words came along but if only just 2 alot can happen in 6 mths by 2.6 my ds was verbal but still only single words 2.8 putting some 2 words togther still limited understanding of words

3.4 all of a sudden putting 3-4-5-6 words together have also had very long wait for speech therapy had none still he is 3.5 and was diagnosed with HFA at 3 was told for along time his ok just a boy bit slow nothing wrong etc very disheartening when something screams out its more than that

sorry your feeling this way does sound like nursery has no sn experience

can you ask hv about other places you may be able to go with ds any sn groups near by

in all fairness i will say he is still very young and could grow out of all this but also if something is worrying you keep chasing people up i have found they dont come to you you have to do all the running im still doing the running its hard work but you have to do it to get anywhere

also at home make sure you set boundries my ds responds so well to this was hard work for first week but then he responded so well

pick your fights with him but always distract from naughty behaviour if unable to distract remove him from room to hall and then when calm bring him back in

i know it may not work for your ds but thought id tell you what helped with mine it was down to frustration when more words came along he became calmer now he is the most placid boy you could meet

definatly do pic cards so he has a way to express himself

sorry that went on bit long but it wasnt so long ago i felt just like you so its still so fresh for me so keep chin up and remember you dont get anywhere unless you get onto people ask hv about ed people to see if one to one can be offered

bubbla has good advice

That really doesn't sound like a very good nursery! They could have been far more supportive (and tactful). DD was already 'in the system' with developmental delay when we applied to the nursery she attends. Their attitude was, let's observe her first, over 4 sessions, with me present, and then make a decision about what would be bestone to one or whether she could manage in the bigger group. It turned out to be obvious she would need 1 to 1, and that's what she gotway before we even started the statementing process.
I hope you find a better, more empathic nursery. I always think, if they are tactless with parents, how do they behave with the children when you aren't around?

From my own experience I would really look into seeing if there is another nursey option. DS1 was at a preschool that simply did not grasp the difficulties he had (speech delay &concerns over his social communication). It came to a head for me was when I collected DS1 and I was handed his car and painting as "HE (DS1) had refused to say thank you so I am giving these to you". By "refused" he just stood there saying nothing. Poor chicken never used to speak to the staff there anyway (this is what they told his SALT, something they never raised with me).
He started at his new preschool this week, DS1 loves it and the staff are really enthuisastic about helping him.

thank you so much for all your wonderful advice. not sure about all the abbreviations and technical terms???? hfa, surestart...?
i don't know how to discipline him, don't get me wrong i don't mean he gets away with murder, i just feel like i'm screaming at him all the time, when you tell him off he wont even look at you, even getting down to his level, even holing his face and turning it towards you. baby is demanding doesn't like to be put down, feeding every couple of hours, so can't do much with him, even if i do play with him he has no attention span (i know normal for a 2 year old!!) wont read books. probably shouldn't have dvds on all the time but how are you supposed to get anything done? sorry for moaning just feel like such a shit mum, and wondering what the hell we've done having another!

forgot to say have tried other nurseries, one which i really liked only had one session, we wanted two and we are waiting for the other to come availiable, felt i couldnt just keep waiting and rang this other place. they have said he can do the trials until the assessment. HV is nice, is on hols at the mo but spoke to another yesterday and she said don't panic just get assessment out of way and then see.

HFA is high functioning autism sure start is a centre that can offer someone to come and help for hour or so was offered to me

first dont turn his face to look at you and try not to shout easier said than done but my son reacted different if i wasnt shouting

thias is where it becomes battle of wills

get down to his level and calmly say what he has done wrong and try and get a reply such as ok so you know he has heard

tell him to stay in hall for example if unable to calm him dont argue but ignore walk away and leave to calm down then you can calm also

then go back out and praise for calming down or if been naughty explain why he was there and go and start again with no mention of naughty behaviour

try if you can to have some valuable one to one as acting out could be his way of grabbing your attention could you do playdoh or painting together and have fun

ask him what he'd like to do and see if this will help

sure start also offers days out my friend goes every monday look it up and see what is to offer i only know small bits as was offered help in my home

your not a shit mum his at an age that can be difficult you have new baby and not enough energy or time

but it is crucial that the attention he gets is positive and not negative as he'll thrive off any attention he gets

just cuddle on sofa read to him sing to him put bowl of water in lounge with water toys in , playdoh lots of talking and praise and try to have fun

make pizza together make anything together doesnt have to be lenghty in time but just that 5 mins positive attention and praise

even small thingsd good boy for sitting nice and eating , good boy that picture is lovely etc

also look up to see if you have a snap centre near by my ds loves going there and have all sorts of things they can offer you

porgie, the nursery my daughters went to supported a number of children with special needs, including those who got one-to-one, supported financially by the local authority. I do hope you can find somewhere sympathetic, and get the support you and your family need, x

ooh no, thats homestart bubbla- suestart is the government under 5's people

i know this well

if you think thats confusing m last job was

surestar homestart co-ordinator' pmsl

which meant I worked for homestart the charity but in a really deprived area so surestart funded me

lol silly me all sounds the same ha ha good job i said google it

porgie, your ds sounds very similar to mine. he has delayed language - though i didn't realise it when he was 2. at that age he was very resistant to shared activities like reading. looking back, it was probably because his lack of language was a frustration to him.

we ended up relying heavily on dvds too, but recently i have been trying to cut down as i feel he actually behaves better when he watches less. it's really difficult with a new baby to cut it right out, but ds has even started to show more interest in shared reading now too. perhaps that's only because he is a bit older now though.

please don't feel you are a bad mum - i felt awful in the first few weeks after dd was born for constantly nagging my son, but things are MUCH better now. still have off days though, but i find it helpful to try to bear in mind that, although it might sometimes seem like it, they are not intentionally trying to upset you.

i'm reading "unconditional parenting" at the moment, and the best thing i've taken from it is to try to think of everything as a learning opportunity rather than a discipline issue. 2 is still very very little, and he has a lot of learning about the world to do. it helps me to stay calm to remeber this (sometimes!!!)

all that extra energy can be difficult to deal with. i left a friend's house in tears yesterday because ds ran amok, but i realised i had just made a bad decision in taking him there (friend has no children). i'm trying to stick to places where he can run amok safely, bacause i can't really change that aspect of him.

umm... sorry for rambling!!

Porgie, I felt similarly out of control through much of last year when DS2 was 2. Time will take care of a lot of this. for what it's worth, here are my suggestions for now.

For now, stop feeling bad and just take small, small steps. Ok, he watches DVDs all the time. Throw out any that don't have words. Throw out any that are not designed for his age group. Feed the baby watching them with him. Make the odd comment on them. Aim to gradually make them a more shared activity. If they're a lot of his world right now, get to know it. You can make them a (more) positive thing rather than attempting to limit them to an hour a day (a concept completely lost on children his age and stage). Even if he's just sitting on your knee watching, that would be a good thing.

And on behaviour, maybe identify the best (or least bad?) part of the day. Perhaps first thing in the morning? Tell yourself that you'll have one part of the day, even if it's ten minutes, where he just gets positive attention and praise. Find one game you can do together, even if it's just tickles/cuddles/lifting him in the air. ok so the rest of the day may not be great but when things calm down you'll be able to deal with that later.

Forget about any classes requiring him to be disciplined for now.

Keep your language with DS1 short and simple. Don't try to be supernanny if you haven't got the energy to do it consistently. If it's hard to find moments to praise him, praise him to the baby instead. Tell the baby "baby, I know you want to play with DS1 and you can when you are older". "Baby, I know you want to run and jump like DS1, when you are older he will show you". When you talk to/play with baby, make DS1's intelligence, speed, agility, etc, the subject of all your conversations. Baby will think you're praising him and DS1 will know it's about him.