parents of dcs with Autism - PLEASE tell me what you think++++++++++

[kalo12]

my ds is 7.5 months, he flaps his arms and hand twirls when lying on his back or sitting in a chair - legs tensed out arms tensed out. he does it all the time.

He doesn't babble but he does maje aaahh sounds which are mainly throat and monotone.

he doesn't respond to his name or look at things i name or point out.

he doesn't crawl, only just started sitting up last couple of weeks.

when he rolls over he doesn't corkscrew but lifts his head tense and uses his legs to flip. Always doing stomach crunces.

other than that he smiles alot, is very active.
poor sleeper, refuses solids , allergic to dairy

Please tell me if you think this could be autism.

Many thanks

neuro-typical

I guess I did feel he was different from 6monthsish. It was the lack of emotions, I called him a vulcan! And he'd sit quite happily for ages, you had to come right up to his face and say hello before he'd acknowledge you in a "oh it's you!" way. I lied at his 8m checkup that he was babbling, he didn't til about 12m. Once he was crawling I used to say that people were just furniture to him - you were either in his way or not. At toddler group with circle singing he used to crawl all round the circle over all the mums (and other babies), not at all bothered where I was. I nearly cried when he finally did spot me across the room one day and crawl over jovially. He's always been self-sufficient and very strong physically, it really felt like he didn't need me at all (which TBH is a blessing when you have close age gaps!)

'Once he was crawling I used to say that people were just furniture to him'

This brings back memories of my ds (when he was in the 14mths-24mths age range)...his grandad woud stand in front of him with arms open waiting to scoop him up but my ds would just dodge around him or run between his legs!

My DS would grab your legs and try to move you himself. He also used to run up excitedly to Daddy or Grandpa (his favourites) then whizz off sideways at the last moment to avoid contact.

I noticed similar things - no normal eye contact, no separation anxiety, between 12-18 months used my hand as a tool to push the train round the track, abnormal fear of noises.

The therapy we do is not Floortime, it is the hospital's own therapy but I do see some similarities. The aim is to work on the underlying problems of engagement - to make the child share attention and to play reciprocal games. Since starting he has learned to play 2 way games (I throw, he catches, he throws, I catch) and to take turns in games. I think there has been a knock on affect with his speech as although you still can't have a conversation, he answers questions more quickly.

To OP, I don't think you should spend the next months worrying about the future and which nursery he will go to as all you are going on is a fear not a certainty and even the world's greatest expert in ASD would not be able to give you a dx at 8 months. Is it the hand flapping that started you worrying? This is something that some ASD children do but it is not a primary symptom of autism. My DS1 does not flap his hands or twirl. Could there be a physical cause that you need to have checked?

Yes to lack of eye contact, emotion, people-as-furniture, lack of distress at being left. Actually, that's uncanny. I used to say that DD1 regarded people as being the same sort of objects as sofas. And that she would very happily go off with Attila the Hun, should he happen to ride by and pick her up.

Other things too of course, but I'm trying to think back to this age: no "echoing", she would make noises, you would make noises but never a "conversation", no link at all. No "social" games, no peek-a-boo or hiding. Understood "label" words - cup, food, etc. but not those with social context: didn't get "no" for ages.

Mind you, they're only now tentatively adding ASD to her list of diagnoses - she runs on about 1/3 of a brain - but as the social processing area is gone she has pretty much the same problems.

Yer problem at this age is that all the official milestones are motor. All the stuff we are talking about here is very subjective so though we can describe it no doctor would risk saying your child did or did not have a problem if you turned up with a list of concerns about social development. Absolute earliest for raising concern for ASD would be 1 year plus, more probably 18m.

The flapping/flailing thing combined with the not sitting (though the not sitting is probably still fine at this age, it is combined with other stuff) might raise more interest tbh, they might see it as a motor development issue rather than an ASD marker. Is your HV a good one? Or your GP? Do they still do the 8 month check in your area? Even if they don't, if you have concerns you can ask for an 8-month developmental check with your GP. At this age they're more likely to put eg not looking at things down to an eyesight problem, so expect them to run visual and hearing checks.

thanks for all your replies. Its really helping. basically the more i look into it the more it makes sense that there is something going on and actually as I have these concerns I feel that I must do something about them in a sort of preventative way.

I am a special needs teacher and trained as a movement therapist which is why I have noticed these markers (of course I'm a neurotic first time mum too so..)

Along with the flapping / not meeting milestones / allergy
there is also liking spining in the bouncer instead of bouncing, history of candida before and during pregnancy and birth, long labour with baby stuck in birth canal, umbilical cord around baby's neck, anti biotics after the birth - metrodiazonole which i have since found is not safe for bf.
no sleep for me and baby night after night for 7 months.

I realise nobody knows and nobody can tell me if he is or he isn't. but thank you for your replies and you all seem like you are ok and coping and nice people and happy.

But if you know of any preventative measures I can try in a 'no harm trying way' then I would be very grateful.

misscutandstick, that's what happened with us, a total stall of development for DS1 which lasted about 10 months between about 18 months and 28 months. He's still around 10 months behind in language aged 3 so it makes sense. I don't know what kick started the development again, but I remember how scary it was when I realised what was going on, and I do feel for the OP.

Both of mine, one probably with mild ASD/lang disorder, and one probably without, were cuddly, smiley, responsive and playful babies. The key differences are in the way they relate to me, and their language development. ds2 is a real attention seeker, needs cuddles and reassurance constantly, in comparison to ds1 who is happy just doing his own thing, and doesn't need company so much as long as he has toys to play with.

kalo, would highly recommend cranial osteopathy due to the birth issues you mention, I saw you mentioned it earlier. I took both ds' to an amazing lady down south west who specialises in treating babies who were born after difficult labours. Must stress though, it is not in any way a "cure" for ASD, or similar, but DS2 in particular, made good progress physically after two sessions with the lady we saw.

You have a few months to think about the MMR. DS2 has just turned 13 months and i have decided to delay giving it to him but haven't totally ruled it out. I also will not give DS1 the booster he's due although I don't believe the MMR caused his autistic symptoms, they were there (albeit very mildly) anyway. It is a very personal decision and I wouldn't want to influence you either way.

Kalo how do you feel about the birth itself? Have a look here if you have had problems getting it out of your head. Don't mean to be patronising but Post Natal Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (which would not be a surprise in your case) could also affect your perceptions and make you worry more than say another mum might. Just another thing to eliminate...

kalo - why scared?

yes, i think that actually I may be experiencing PND.

hecate I'm scared cos i don't know what will happen and I am panicking

Kalo I doid wonder about tahat with your first post. Its worth seeing a gp- I never got it treated with ds1 and regret the lost time. Indeed it was only seeing how it could be with ds3, ds4 that I realised.

Daiy allergies are hard too- in our family me, ds1, ds3, ds4 are allergic to dairy- so if you ever need any advice cat me!

we're looking into separate mmr jabs. ds2 had the mmr like the others and he (unlike ds1 and ds3, asd) was fine but I'm not risking it for ds4. Back then the boys were undiagnosed- now its all very different

Oh love, that's just life!! None of us know what will happen. You will drive yourself crackers if you carry on like that. Control whatever you can control and accept those things that are out of your control.

If your anxiety levels are getting in the way of you living your life, then you should really consider having a word with your hv/gp.

When you say preventative measures, what do you mean? What are you aiming to prevent? (I ask so I know what, if anything, I can suggest to you!)

oh and at 7.5 months he's weaning right? (bas, my amost 6 monther, is).

is he gluten free still?

Bas is as I have found (and I am not aone) that gluten is a trigger with ds1

might be worth consderation?

its called a gluten and casein free diet, but as youre already dairy free you're halfway there already

he's not really weaning, doesn't want any of it and seems to be allergic to everything. HV told me to stop for now and start again next week from the beginning.

I was giving him banana porridge which had gluten in, it seemed to be the only thing that he liked but I have stopped that now cos he started refusing it then when I gave it again he seemed allergic.

Hecate - as for preventative measures I'm thinking Cranio oesteopathy, probiotics, and going on a complete anti candida diet myself. (as well as bf-ing forever like malcolm and mrs merton!)

What other things could help? I know that no medical prof will take me seriously, and I just think that if I am this concerned I could try things which parents do with normal babies anyway, but are specific to ASD like special movement practice, cross patterning etc

well there's no harm in cross patterning; I do it with all my boys as it was something ds1 had issues with. Probably no point but heck if you make itfun then why not? I know experience that I constantly root trough what I could have dne differently with the asd boys (nothing in reality thatr I didnt do with nt ds2 but here you go).

try and keep to gluten free, there's loads of suggestion about it can be an asd trigger in a few susceptible kids, ds4 wont have any until he's 3 (past regression age).

(you can make a good banana porridge style dish from millet flakes btw)

I would say that helping yourself is a worthwhile 'can't hurt' measure . After all, if he were to prove ASD it will help to be prepared for challenging behaviour and the rainbow of emotions that an actual printed-on-paper DX brings. For example sort out anxiety issues, debrief your birth, take up yoga, learn to stay relaxed as much as poss and useful ways to release stress. If he doesn't go that way then you will indeed be Mrs Chilled. And don't forget you might want to fit in another baby or two one day so it's all valuable lifeskills that most people don't attempt to focus on until too late .

Off to google cross patterning - never heard of it!

very, very good advice from mrs B!

a link to the blog of someone on MN who knows loads and does cover diets etc

you lot have been brilliant, I have had a massive dinner of really good for you stuff and loads that contain b6 and I'm feeling loads better already. off to bed in half an hour, will make appointment for me with gp tomorrow and have made appt with cranio oestopath for baby.

big big thankyou

glad you feel better, I think all of us understand your anxiety, I felt extremely anxious at the beginning of the year (soon after ds2's birth, i also wondered about PND) and it's lessened as I've understood more about ds1 and his possible condition. This site has been a godsend.

Do let us know how the cranio oestopath goes, half my family have now been for various reasons and I truly believe it works in some way I don't understand. I had some for a nagging back ache and apparently my neck had been badly twisted ever since I did gymnastics (badly) as a child - who knew?

i haven't had any sleep at all again. my baby has been waking every hour from about four months, before that he used to sleep 2-3 hours.

would you say that is a typical asd behaviour?

does anyone know any specialists in London who know about early diagnosis and detoxification?