Stupid tribunal AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHH

[daisy5678]

Went for the DLA Tribunal today. Was all psyched up for it, after a year of the DWP arsing about and changing their decisions every 2 minutes - one minute not entitled to any, next minute entitled to some, but only for about three weeks until it'll be looked at again blah blah.

The document bundle is about 400 pages all in all. The DWP hadn't even decided what their main issue for forcing the appeal was and their submission was really contradictory AND they hadn't sent anyone from the office where the decision had been made.

But... the TRIBUNALS SERVICE had asked someone to come because it was such a complex case which didn't seem very impartial to me - it's like saying 'contest it!'

The guy seemed OK and wasn't stroppy, but he clearly thought I was a very stupid little girl who was just being a bit silly and kept telling me it was all about very complicated law! The Tribunal people seemed OK though. Just wanted it OVER!

And they decided to adjourn to get yet another report from the CAMHS psych. Never mind the fact that I signed a form months ago to say they could seek further medical evidence without further consent. Never mind that she's already written them 2 letters in support of the appeal AND I told them weeks ago in writing that she could come to the Tribunal if they wanted her to, but they'd need to let me/ her know...they want to write to her and get her to write back.

I suggested that they phone her, but apparently it has to be in writing.

And it's all very complex complex complex - yes, well my life is very complex complex complex and I really really don't have the spare worrying time, iykwim, and I CERTAINLY don't have the time to take yet more time off work!

Obviously I will, but why can nothing ever ever be simple? Why do I, and so many of us, have to fight for every single thing? Got the Statement, got the Blue Badge, got the SS support, got the OT and the SALT, but NEVER first time! Have to write stupid letters and wait for everything to grind its way slowly through the wheels of beurocracy.

rant over

Just wanted to send you a hug and bump for you

My ds is 7.5 months and chances are I have al this joy yet to come .

I can imagine that the tribunal wanted someone to come to explain the decision though. nothing to do with them wanting to contest it, it may well be on the contrary, but the tribunal needs to make objectively the right decision, so they may need the dwp to explain their reasoning.

it is the same at the tribunal I appear before in a professional capacity.

all the best, hope you get what you need.

Bloody infuriating isn't it. Its such a battle it wears you down, just as you get one thing sorted another problem arrives. Maybe we're supposed to just give up Sorry you are having to go through yet another battle.

Givemesleep i think now is the time for chocolate and wine. Im so sorry they are still mucking you about i know how hard everything is. Chin Up and keep on going....you will win and then victory will be all the more sweeter!

Hello all
I had my sons DLA (Type 1 Diabetes) reduced at the last 3 year review, i appealed and lost because they said his health decline was because he was not co-operating with his regime!! Last friday i had the feedback from his physchometric testing which said he has learning diffculties and therefore is unable to co-operate fully. I want to hit that Dr who looked me in the eye and basically said it's his own fault he doesnt have good blood sugar control. I can't appeal again but must re-apply all over again and i just don't think i have the energy.

Why do we have to fight for everything for our children?
The best of luck to you givemesleeporgivemechocolate i hope you have a positive result soon. x x

Thanks guys.

I just wanted it over, one way or another!

There was one bright spot: they all (including the DWP guy) agreed that the length of the high rate care award should be extended for many more years than the current award. So at least I'm just fighting the mobility bit.

Marina: I know what you mean about the energy. Why not do a page a week of the form or something, so you're doing it but not in a stressful way. On the new evidence, it shuld be more hopeful.

I hope I will win. I genuinely do believe that J is entitled to the high mobility and the advice I've received has stated that it's a grey area (re intelligence) but that previous cases like J's have succeeded. I feel like it's point of principle to continue with it now!

For DLA and how to apply for all that stuff, here's a good website that shows you how to make a successful application and there are lots of tips that really make you think about the questions on the application forms. Wish I had found it years ago! www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/

Still waiting for a new date. Could really do with this being out of the way as looks like we will also have to look for a new school soon as the current school want his 33 hours of 1:1 increased to 66 hours of 1:1 per week to be able to keep him there

It is all just getting too much at the moment and this Tribunal is one hassle I just don't need.

Finally received the copy of the consultant's report and it's really good - really backs up my case - she is such a superstar as I think them having to write reports etc. for stuff like this is so not in their job description, but she always comes through - really happy about that

but then rang the Tribunals Service to find out the new date and apparently it's going to be January because it needs a double slot because of the 'complexity' of the case and they're fully booked up until after Christmas.

One bright spot is that, if the appeal is successful (which the consultant's evidence makes much more likely as they said that their decision would rest on what she said) then they'll owe me close to £2000 in backpayments, which really would be very useful.

Will have to wait and see!

They re-scheduled it for this month instead of January...and we WON! Was only in there 5 minutes and was so so chuffed! They said, despite his academic intelligence, they were persuaded by his consultant's report that he is severely impaired functionally and therefore we now have HRC and HRM for 5 years!

They were really nice and it was so nice to be believed for once. Now just have to hope that DLA people don't appeal the decision...

so makes a change doing that instead of the miserable and angry ones!

glad it went well.

Oh god thats amazing.
Seems quite a lot of good news around at the mo. Brilliant, well done, I know its been a hard slog for you.

told ya

Thanks all!

Hoorah. So pleased it finally worked out for you .

That is excellent news. Enjoy your spending spree!!

Did you manage to sort out the school issues too?

hooray, you will have to pass on your wisdom so i can reapply, was refused HRM and HRC last time purely based on the fact i had included a report i had written over a year ago when DS was still sleeping through the night, this changed about 9 months ago and we are now up atleast 3 times a night with DS, also now would have reports from school about how much support DS needs on trips outside of school which im sure would be helpful on the mobility part.
what else did you put in , did you include examples of when HRC and HRM had been awarded for similar reasons????

School issues not at all sorted, which made for a bit of a hollow victory tbh. I'd far rather the school stuff was sorted than have extra cash, but it's not either/ or, so trying to be happy that one battle's won.

No spending spree until I get confirmation that the DWP have accepted it and won't appeal, as the guy did say that they didn't like the fact that the Tribunal was asking for a legal opinion (was J mentally impaired) from a medical professional and said that the department wouldn't like that.

Bonkerz, are you going to Tribunal?

Yours seems a bit more difficult as I know a few people who've been virtually accused of being liars when they've said that their child has suddenly stopped sleeping through (cos clearly kids can't change ) and also of course it's so hard to prove as nobody but you is there at night! What's he up for; what does he do? Once they accept that (eventually) than HRC should be OK, but mobility was the bugger for me.

The case I most clearly relied on was this 2002 case in front of the Commissioner (appealing an appeal decision) which was about a boy very similar to ours 209.85.229.132/search?q=cache:-0EgJfFxmbMJ:www.osscsc.gov.uk/judgmentfiles/j248/cdla%25203215%252020 01.doc+%22H+Levenson%22+disability+jigsaws&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=uk - good academic intelligence, of no use when it came to meltdowns or most of real life.

Here's the key bit:

"I allow the appeal because there is one very important aspect of the claimant?s condition of which the tribunal was aware but which it appears not to have taken into account in making its decision. The key passage in the tribunal?s full statement (as reproduced on page 147 of the bundle of papers) is:

?We feel that the activities that [he] is capable of including rudimentary mathematics, playing football, putting together jigsaws and models, and following films, videos and stories are all ?useful intelligence? in a child of 5. We appreciate and find that his social functioning is severely impaired, and we accept that he has severe behavioural problems. We have considered his intelligence in the context of social functioning. However, we have to bear in mind that severe impairment of social functioning is an additional requirement over and above the severe impairment of intelligence.?

"14. What the tribunal did not take into account was the evidence of the claimant?s total lack of any sense of danger and inability to calculate risk. For example, on 3rd October 2000 a social worker reported (page 57) that the claimant ?has no awareness of danger and can be unpredictable?. The report of 15th June 2000 from the consultant developmental paediatrician refers (page 72) to ?lack of awareness of safety and the failure to take notice of things he has been told not to do?. On 14th April 2000 a specialist teacher reported (page 84) that the claimant has ?messed his pants frequently showing no signs that he his uncomfortable or that he knows that he has done it?. On 11th April 2001 the community occupational therapist reported (page 110) that: ? ? [He] displays unpredictable and impulsive danger ? The main area of concern and intervention is [his] lack of awareness regarding safety/danger ? [He] requires close supervision for his safety. He is agile and moves quickly and unpredictably without awareness of danger?.

15. I have concentrated on the opinions of specialists in the field but there is also a great deal of detailed evidence to the same effect from the claimant?s mother and from a neighbour. In my view the tribunal was in error of law in failing to take account of this strand of the case or, if it did so, in failing to explain why it still concluded that there was no severe impairment of intelligence. There is adequate, uncontradicted, evidence on which I can substitute my own decision and it is expedient that I do so. It seems to me that a child who has no sense of danger (as contrasted with a child who has the ability to take risks deliberately and decides to do so) lacks such a fundamental aspect of basic human intelligence that it must be the case (certainly here) that his intelligence is severely impaired.

16. For the above reasons this appeal succeeds to the extent indicated.

H. Levenson

Commissioner

9th April 2002"

For me, that was the key thing: J's lack of awareness of danger, which is REALLY well-documented through his whole life and which proved the DWP wrong when they said that, in the absence of a learning disability, he should not require extra supervision or care as he should be able to behave like other children They really don't get autism

They're not allowed to rely on IQ tests anymore after the Megarry case but they still made loads of J's good ability in reading and ICT and could not see that this doesn't help him when he's trying to jump off a building or out of a car.

Luckily the tribunal could see that.

I will email you the whole letter I wrote, breaking down all of the evidence for each part of the criteria if you want. Just let me know!

that would be great, you have my email address.
I didnt actually go to appeal when i applied and was turned down, at the point when they made the decision to refuse i was fighting for the school and decided to prioritise my battles and as i saw how much trouble you were having i decided to let it go at that point. Obviously now school is sorted i can concentrate on this part now.
DS started waking about 9 months ago, im sure its the anxiety issues that are causing the waking at night, he wets the bed and is currently refusing to sleep in his bed and instead is choosing to sleep on the floor under his bed which means we have to be more aware when he wakes up as we cannot hear the bed creak anymore! When he wakes he is struggling to go back to sleep by himself and needs his light on to read but he cannot sleep with his light on which means we have to stay awake with him so we can turn the light off! the bed wetting is getting better but on average it is still up to 4 times a week but he has started to hide it from us choosing instead to get towels or just sleep in another part of the room on the floor.
We have had his SALT assessment which ages his speach and social speach at age 5.2 when he is in fact 8.4 years! this also describes how he does not understand instructions etc. Have CAMHS in Jan who i will ask to document the lack of sleeping through and bed wetting, also have got request from pead asking about managing his anxiety as its causing other problems.
Already have written about when DS opened the car door on a dual carriageway and social services are involved too offering respite because its almost impossible to go out with DS nowadays!
Any help you can be will be brilliant, im gonna ring for the forms after new year!

Have finally emailed you!

well done you. very best of luck with the next stage of the school saga.

£500 compensation (from 'special payments' dept at DWP) received this week as well as an acknowledgment of their misadministration and failure to follow the law...and they'll pay any credit card interest I accrued as a result of the 14 month delay in payment!

Now only 4 years till it all starts again...

That is excellent. I thought it would be about £50. Well done!!

That's good news.