Is 12 months too soon to tell if DS2 will be NT or is there still an ASD risk? help please!

[kt14]

Been thinking myself into knots so thought I'd post on here and hope for some words of wisdom from anyone who's been through this..

ds1 has just turned 3 and shows many signs of HFA but is still pre dx. DS2 has just turned 1 and I've been watching him like a hawk since birth for signs of ASD, and to be honest, I've kind of expected to see it given that so many families seem to have siblings on the spectrum.

Until recently, DS2 has been v similar to DS1 and I've been concerned (although DS1 developed fairly normally in his first 18 months but with v late speech, gesturing and pointing) but in the last month from DS2 we've had proper clapping, waving, pointing and some words (daddy, dink for drink, bah bah for bye bye etc.) He seems to point to request things, for interest and this morning when I asked him where his balloon was, he immediately turned and pointed. He also brings me things constantly and likes to play with me. His non-verbal communication skills are vastly better than DS1's ever were and I find it amazing that i can actually tell what he wants.

The pointing and sharing are very different from how DS1 was, and I definitely don't remember him ever pointing to the extent DS2 does but there are still other similarities (I guess there would be in brothers) and he doesn't always copy gestures straightaway although usually waves when waved to, claps on request, opens his mouth wide if I do etc.

It feels like I've got a first baby again as I don't really trust my experience with dS1. What I fear is that DS2 will suddenly regress and lose his skills. Has anyone else's child been so responsive and then lost this? Is there any way I can prevent it happening? DS1 did regress but it was mild (temp loss of eye contact and deterioration in social skills) but didn't really have the gesturing to lose in the first place.

Any advice greatly appreciated!

BTW I don't mean to sound as if having another child with ASD would be so awful, it wouldn't and we'd all cope whatever. I think it's the idea of going through the stressful whole diagnostic process so soon after DS1 that would really scare me.

ooooh wierd!!! ibe just posted similar!!!!

Although it does sound (from an outsider) that your DS2 is fine - at the moment. Although if DS2 has been reaching milestones at the right age i would assume that everything will be just fine.

MY DS5 (autism) lost his skills at about 14mths - but looking back there were definately signs of something not being right to start with (didnt roll over, not sitting till 10mths, terrified of being moved/picked up too fast - even at 8mths!) DS1 loved watching TV at 4wks, which looking back was definately strange, it was the only thing that calmed him.

So i would think that if everything is going as it should so far, i would assume that your DS2 will be fine. Obviously keep an eye on him - but relax a little and enjoy him!!!

thanks misscutandstick - saw your post too. Ithink I'm being a little neurotic as I completely missed the signs in DS1 until he was almost 2, as they were fairly subtle (and still are.) Could you ask your pediatrician re your DS if you have an appt for another child anyway? That's how I kicked things off for DS1 - with the HV who came to see DS2!

KT- unfortunately the ONLY person who doesnt believe theres anything amiss with DS5 is the paediatrician - Portage (inclusion), SALT, his podiatrist, the dietician, the HV and the GP... all of which accept the undeniable, except his Paed so i dont think thats an option TBH. but was worth a thought, thanks.

oh no, that's a real shame. Maybe just run things past the HV then to start with, if they have enough knowledge to help. I know ours was great as she had a particular interest in ASD but the rest were pretty clueless, and even my BIL who is a GP had no clue why pointing was so important in child development.. scary!

Hi - I saw a post from you in B+D. It really doesn not as if there is much to be concerned about although once an idea gets into your mind, it can be hard to shake it. I'm not speaking from experience because I have never thought DS2 might be ASD because of the marked differences in development. DS1 pointed to share his attention but never followed my point and never wanted to engage on my terms. Some things you mention do sound familar though - I used to think DS2 must be telepathic because it was so weird the way he picked up on everything without any instruction. So it's all sounding very normal for your DS2

I know what you mean about DS2 being your 'first baby'. I think that too sometimes and it's scary to see how every milestone in every book gets ticked so effortlessly. I also feel at times that I don't know enough about how to play with an NT baby and I worry that I'm not doing enough or doing it the right way.

That's exactly it cyberseraphim, it's that the idea has been planted, I know I wouldn't be thinking ASD otherwise. Feel a little better now! And I also stress about playing with DS2 enough, try to read to him, show him shape sorters etc. It must help that I label everything for him as i do for DS1. Gives me a sore throat by the end of the day though!!

On another subject, I seem to remember (but may have this wrong, apologies if so!) that you have a brother with HFA. DO you mind me asking a little about him? Just wondering about DH who was v similar to DS1 at the same age, didn't speak properly until 5 and was a solitary child according to MIL. He's pretty ok now, but lacks some social skills in that he has no tact whatsoever, completely misses non verbal cues and can take or leave people, has only a handful of close friends and tends to socialise with the partners of my friends. I just sometimes think he may be very mildly on the spectrum, or possibly just be very male!

My brother did not speak properly til 5 or 6. He had very poor social skills, he never had any friends and lived in his own world of modelling aeroplanes (airfix) and reading historical novels (not very highbrow ones). Even now, he is socially avoidant to a high degree. He rarely eats a meal with the family, even at Christmas, he will just leave the table abruptly, make a cup of coffee and read the paper in the next room. He can speak functionally but does not converse in any real sense of the word. He doesn't really have friends but has helped to run a church book stall - so there's always hope !

My ds1 has high functioning ASD (awaiting dx), he's 4;1 and has a 2;2 yr old brother. Ds1's ASD was apparent from around 4 months. I'd say. (am a SALT which helped to be aware of features), whereas DS2 has always been absolutely fine, and I'm not worried about him. Sounds very similar to your situation in some ways.
This is going to sound really odd but when I was pregnat with ds1, I would occasionally lie awake worrying that if we had a boy, he might be ASD (there's a slight family history on my side)...and it turned out he was. Whereas when pregnant with ds2, it never crossed my mind at all, even though I'd already thought Ds1 was on the spectrum - and ds2 turned out to be fine.
Which is a little spooky and a little odd!

Hi, i have a dd1 with AS and a dd2 with ASD, i did'nt realy notice dd2's ASD till a few months ago, shes 2.6, because dd1 was such hard work dd2 seemed realy easy going and layed back. Our GP picked up on the possible ASD when she went for a check up, we had noticed her lack of speech but always thought this was because dd1 was so verbal, now it all seems to add up. She is non-verbal, hand flaps, lines toys up, holds her ears, does'nt realy play with toys and has only just started pointing. We are waiting for a dx and she is seeing SALT. Its hard work having 2 on the spectrum but i love them to bits.
We do worry that if we have another child they may have ASD just because of the stress of getting a dx and getting the help they need.

thanks all, and esp cyberseraphim for your description. DH can be socially avoidant, and is well known to pick up a paper and avoid conversation with a roomful of people, but not to the extent of your brother. Can't imagine him missing a Xmas lunch anyway! It's all such a spectrum though, and maybe DH is very palest grey if that makes sense!

And jammydodger, that is spooky that you somehow knew about your ds', am having to retrain my brain from assuming ds2 will have ASD to assuming he won't. It's an odd feeling but really great to see him hitting the milestones that DS1 just didn't.

Hi Electra, no, it's not fun at all and it's really hard to explain to anyone who hasn't been through it without appearing totally neurotic! Pre holidays I was constantly watching babies of similar age at playgroups and inwardly panicking if I saw them doing something DS2 couldn't. Thankfully his surge of development in the last few weeks has really eased my worries.

DS1 has always been quite good at playing with toys so we weren't concerned initially because of that, he still has good symbolic play, it just hasn't developed further into imaginative play yet (although he's just turned 3)

DS1 has never been a clear cut case of ASD due to lots of atypical behaviour, making and following a point, playing with toys, checking my reaction to things etc. His language development has been the greatest clue tbh, and we still have a way to go to see if DS2 develops "normal" speech. I guess it's all a bit of a waiting game!

Wouldn't wish this on anyone, but it's comforting to feel I'm not the only person who's been in this situation.