Strange social & interaction probs. What to do???

[blueteddy]

I have a 5yr old ds, who started school in September.
He has been having trouble since nursery days with his social & interaction skills.
He finds it hard to mix (other than with very close friends), has trouble settling to/choosing activities in class & more concerning, he turns his back to the teacher during carpet time & in assembly!
When we went to see the school christmas play, he turned his back to us every time they had to stand up & sing. When I asked him why, he said "I thought you would laugh at me."
He is also a very lathargic child, who does everything at a very slow pace & has been reported to sometimes just lay on the floor in class when he does not know what to do!
I have told him again & again about this, but he will just answer "I was bored!"
I have been blaming myself as a parent, again & again & wondering what I have done to make him like this.
If someone says they are not his friend at school, he gets upset at home about it, but will not tell a teacher at school.
He is however, very bright.
He can count to 100, recognises numbers beyond 20, is starting to build words & takes in any facts that you throw at him!
I suffered from PND after ds2 & feel that this has contributed to the anxieties that he suffers with.
I just want him to be like the other children & am getting myself in a state about it.
Can anyone help?

Sorry, have not been on pc 4 a while, as have been speaking to dh!
I don't know what to think (have had a few bacardis now!)
I have struggled with pnd & dh has a temper, which I have also tried to link to things.
Do not know if we, as parents are to blame for his behaviours.

And thanks mrs Fgf.
You have given me a lot of support tonight, when I feel I really need it.
Dh does not understand & thinks MN is for mad women (his words)

Hi blueteddy

Mrs F has had some great advice but if your ds has not actually been diagnosed, don't panic about all this. He may or may not have aspergers. You need to seek some help from your GP or paediatrician if you have one. I'm sure your GP could refer you to the right person/people.

It's funny though because I was reading it and recognising my dd who has dyspraxia. This is a totally different thing, mainly to do with motor development but does have a social side to it as well. I had PND too after she was born and suffer the same guilty feelings you express - although I have been assured this is just the way her brain is wired and parenting has nothing to do with it.

Good luck anyway, do let us know how you get on. i hope your dh is supportive and that you can work this out together.

Funny you should mention dyspraxia, as that is another thing that I am questioning.
His gross motor skills are not as developed as other some other children of his age.
He has never been a great climber, still often climbs stairs 2 feet at a time, takes a while to climb out of the car etc.
His fine motor skills, however are fine (depending on his mood!)
I have always shrugged off asperges, as his imagination is good, he is not at all regimental, is very aware of others feelings & very much like myself at his age.
Saying that, maybe I had some syndrome!
I am still clumsy to this day, but nobody really looked into things when I was young!
He is down to have a developmental assesment with the school doctor.

Blueteddy - I just wanted to echo what Pinkwhistle has said: There are lots of reasons why children have difficulties in particular areas. Your son may need a dx of some sort at some point in the future, but please don't panic about it.

My ds1 is now 7.5 and has some social-emotional-behavioural difficulties, and may benefit from a dx of mild AS in the future, though it's not an avenue we are pursuing atm.

BUT we recently saw an EP, and a couple of things he told us have made me view things in a much more positive way:

1. Certain social/behavioural skills that are usually picked up automatically by children, can be successfully taught.
2. A child, Bobby, with some of these 'AS-symptoms' can be helped using strategies which are supportive to children with AS. This is not the same as saying that Bobby needs a dx of AS.

I hope that makes some sort of sense to you, and maybe helps a bit too. You sound as though you have good relationships with the school, which is a great start. Please try and think positive.

I work in the school, so know all the staff very well!
Forgot to mention that he also has some nervous tiks, which have been going on for about a year.
They go after a while, but are replaced with another one!
His latest one is that he keeps touching his face.
Nobody seems to notice them except me & I put them down to his anxiety.

ROISIN said in a few words exactly what i feel about this....that being....

"A child, Bobby, with some of these 'AS-symptoms' can be helped using strategies which are supportive to children with AS. This is not the same as saying that Bobby needs a dx of AS. "

my son's paed says to imagine a series of interlinking circles where each circle is a 'symptom/difficulty'....and then to overlap them into a 'flower' type shape...like a circular olympic rings design.....and then imagine your child somewhere within this picture....some kids are smack bang in the middle...and appear 'NORMAL' (yuck- hate that word)....whereas some kids are withing whole circles and 'just have a diagnosis of 1 thing'....and there are those like my sons who are within the overlap area and have things like ADHD,Dyspraxic tendancies (whatever THAT really means!) and Aspergers.

I have asked ds why he lays on the floor sometimes in school & he answers "I was bored!"
He also says the toys are boring!
He uses his imagination well, eg: he will role play mario when not playing it & if they are told to imagine they are holding some balloons for instance, he will really get into it & pretend he is taking off!
I think the turning his back thing, is because he hates feeling on the spot & making too much eye contact (but then both myself & dh are not good with eye contact), he dislikes a lot of attention as well.
He has always been very interested in computers (not obsessive) and has been confident with a mouse since the age of 2.
I don't know what to think?
He is a strange little boy, but as my Mother keeps reminding me, he is just like I was at his age.
Can these kind of behaviours be outgrown/improve with maturity?

blueteddy, please try not to worry, and certainly don't blame yourself as a parent. My DS1 who is also five has a diagnosis of high-functioning autism, and I do have spells where I obsessively go over everything we have said/done/not done etc, but it really is pointless and counterproductive.

It is excellent that he has close friends and enjoys playing with them and having them round for tea. That sounds very positive.

If he is really bored, and finding that school is not sufficiently stimulating, it ought to be possible for the school, in conjunction with you, to devise an IEP (short for individual education plan) that will stretch him a bit more, and also help him to work on the social interaction side of things. I have a friend in RL whose son goes to the same school as mine, and he has an IEP along these lines.

So try not to worry, there are lots of things that the school can do to help him without having to get a formal diagnosis of "anything wrong" at this stage, and even if in the future you do need to proceed to the formal diagnosis stage, remember that a diagnosis is a signpost, not a label.

My ds, now 17, has definitely 'outgrown' his ASD tendencies. He never had a dx but did receive a lot of appropriate care from his teachers. He is now a delightful mixture of typical teen behaviour and more thoughtful, quirky, nerdy behaviour - I wouldn't wish him any other way!!Just enjoy your ds for whoever he is!!!

I would love my ds to become a typical teenager!
One thing he does have a big problem with, which causes me embarrasment is saying hello & goodbye to people. He would rather just give a small wave!

WOW! my ds would never have waved or said hello, goodbye etc as a kiddie. Good luck!!

i agree with redsky 100%.... T is now 11 and he is really trying hard now to be social etc!

T has been as he is from day one and to imagine him different is impossible!

It is embarrasing because people say hello to him & he ignores them!
It embarsses me because it seems that he is being rude!

If he does have some kind os asd then he really cannot help it. They don't understand the art of conversation or social skills. My dd is like this sometimes and I will often prompt her and say , just said hello to you! She then says it back. Sometimes she will do it spontaneously too.

Bluteddy-My DS is 5 (will be 6 this month) and is currently going through the assessment process. The clinical psychologist who has been seeing us said he has a lot of behaviours which point to AS but cannot give a dx until his full assessment on 31st March.
At least your DSs school seems to be supportive. My DSs teacher seems to have made up her mind that there is "nothing wrong" with him and I am constantly told when I pick him up that he has been "very naughty" that day. The pschologist has observed him in school and is convinced that his behaviours are not down to naughtiness, and is going to tell the school that she wants him treated as if he has AS even before the DX as their current attitude is so unhelpful
Like yours, my DS has a lot of problems around things like assembly and carpet-time; but we also have problems with food and routines, plus extreme anxieties, as well.

My ds who has asd rarely says hello, and he has a really strange wave. He'll outstretch his arm, but then just move his hand at the wrist, keeping his arm still.

The thing with my ds is that when he was a toddler he did not seem to have these anxieties.
I remember taking him to Florida just before his 2nd birthday & he was giving fives to the locals & running into the big water fountain (which was full of other children) with great excitment!
Last year when we visited Florida again was completly different.
He would not speak to the locals, never mind give them 5 & was not keen to go into the water fountain, infact he found it a bit scary.
He is like a completley different child now.

Blueteddy - have you sat down and talked to him about greeting people? My ds1 is 7.5 now, and it had never occurred to me to do this. We sat down and discussed how he feels, and how other people feel, when someone says "Hi!" to them, or fails to reply with a greeting in response. He was pretty unco-operative and negative. He told me that it didn't make him feel any different if someone did or didn't greet him, and he point blank refused to believe that it made any difference to anyone else.

BUT subsequently he has taken this idea on board, and now has realised to some extent that saying "Hi!" to someone is an expression of their interest in him, and vice versa, and is therefore important and to be valued.

Of course he hasn't suddenly transformed overnight into a social success!, but it's all about actively teaching him social skills, step by little step. He does now generally notice when someone greets him, and says that it makes him feel good. He often responds to the greetings without being prompted (unless he's very absorbed in something else) and he even initiates greetings himself now sometimes.

My DSs problems have also only really shown up in the last year. He was originally referred to the peadiatriain because I mentioned that he "flapped" his hands at his 3 year check with the HV. I was a lttle concerned about this, as one of my older DSs did it and he has dyspraxia-but there were no other major concerns at that time. However, the other problems have only surfaced since he has been at school and things have become really difficult in year 1.

We have spoken & spoken to him about this & he says he will say hello/goodbye, but then when we are actually in the situation he does not do it!
It is very, very frustrating!
He did it this morning with my sister, who he knows very well!
She greeted him & he went all silly & would not say hello to her, just because he did not want to.
I actually got quite cross with him, because he normally uses the excuse that he is too shy, but he can't be shy of his own Aunty!
He did however say goodbye when asked & when she told him she loved him he said "Love you" back to her!
I guess it is a start!

That is interesting tiggiwinkle, as I would have assumed AS is something you are born with.
My ds occasionally does a bit of hand flapping, especially if excited (eg in a childrens play center) & I was a little concerned as I have heard that this is linked to AS.
He does not walk on tip toes or anything though.
I must say, I have always thought that if he was to have anything it would be some kind of dyspraxia.

My dd flaps when she is excited too.

Does your dd have AD Blossomhill?

From what I have read Blueteddy, symptoms of AS tend to be picked up much later than other ASDs typically at 4-6 years or later. But there are others much more knowledgable than I on here and I stand to be corrected!
My DS3 has dyspraxia and his symptoms are much different to those of DS5(who is possibly AS). DS3 had/has poor gross and fine motor control: could not pedal a trike well; learned to read quite late (DS5 is already reading well); could not do jigsaw puzzles; has difficulty with Maths; and the list goes on.