Anyone know anything about Christopher Place in London? for dcs with hearing and speech problems?

[Mamax4]

I finally got hearing tests back and ds is fine, but he is very speech delayed and I am sure has apraxia. I will take him for further evals, but am looking for some sort of "immersion" speech and occupational therapy nursery. North/NW London would be best, but I can't find anything there at all.

I visited CP YEARS ago (about 10) and it is lovely. At the time it was no use to us as they had no experience or policies for ASD. I believe that has changed now. In the meantime I have heard very little about CP. I'm not sure what immersion S&OT is. How old is your child? What sort of school situation? I might be able to help......

Oh, what I mean by "immersion" is that I'd like him to have more than a weekly SALT visit. What I feel he needs is several hrs a day of speech and likely OT because he is very 'low tone'- he is 2.4 and drools (he is not teething), his mouth is open, he can't pronounce half of the consonants. I am 99% sure he is apraxic. I'll take him in for a full dev ped eval (once we actually cross the Channel as we are still in the middle ages here on the Continent) but in the meantime am trying to figure out what is available in the private sector. I have waited for this move for so long that I feel that at this point I can't afford NOT to put him in a private SN nursery for intensive therapy. Hope this makes sense. THANK YOU for any advice. (You are not in North London, by any chance? grasping at straws here...)

Do you know where you will be living? Eagle House is opening a new school very soon in North London, LB Haringey although I'm not sure where exactly, Crouch End area I think. They are the same group as London Children's Practice or whatever its called. Sorry to be dumb, but are there private SN nurseies? I'm not aware of such a thing but I may well be wrong. I am in North London btw and have MANY contacts across the NL boroughs as I used to run an ABA support group for 7 years, argh! You should also be thinking about a "communicative environment" iyswim, somewhere that uses communication strategies, PECs, other picture strategies such as scheduling, Makaton all the time. 1:1 SLT is all very well and definitely worth it at a your DS's young age, but the rest of the time should be "communication rich".

Yes, it's in Crouch End, still under construction, but I believe it will be mostly for ASD. And LCP's Wellbeck nursery, this Crouch End new school, and Christopher Place all take paying dcs, effectively functioning as a "private" SN nursery. Most dcs there are/will be statemented, but you know how long it takes to get a statement, plus my ds may not get it at all, and in the meantime he is mute... Can I ask you how to get such a "communication rich" environment? Would CP be it? A MS nursery? How do I get it going? THANK YOU, Davros- I may ask to dip into your North London network... i must rent a house first... oy.

I just spent some time reading the Afasic.org boards and this is the key phrase and what you said- "dedicated Speech and Language enriched environment" or "communicative environment". Now, short of going through statementing and LEA (which will take a year and which I will start of course in parallel), where can I get this in North/NW London?? It's 2am, I must go to sleep. Talk to you tomorrow?

Hi Mamax4, I don't want to upset or annoy you but are you sure you won't be looking at a dx of ASD at some point? I ask only because, if so, you could try my DS's previous school TreeHouse. Although most places are funded by Statements they take the odd child who is not entitled to a Statement but whose parents can guarantee fees some other way, e.g. expat package.
If not, then you will probably have to restrict yourself to the few private SN nurseries that you have found. I will ask my pals for any other recommendations. Go and visit asap! I suppose what you need is a communication-rich environment with 1:1 SLT at least 2-3 times a week but you could add that privately. I hope you are made of money! It would certainly be easier to get it all in one place with a view to Statementing in the future. Can I ask what country you are from as that might make a difference, e.g. EC, English speaking (sadly might help or hinder) etc. Have you hooked up with any networks other than SN about house hunting, areas etc? I am off to the cricket all day today so speak later (life's a bitch!).

This probably won't be any use to you, as you would have to go down the NHS assessment route (and therefore waiting lists!) but thought I should make you aware of this nursery in Ealing:-

www.ican.org.uk/Early%20Talk%20Website/I%20CAN%20Early%20Years%20Centres/Ealing/More%20about%20I%20C AN%20in%20Ealing.aspx

Unfortunately the ican nurseries only take kids with specific language problems, and not kids with ASD.

Hi, friends. We are English-speaking but live in Italy. I was in London two weeks ago and went to look at Treehouse- Davros,you read my mind- but it is for "clearly" autistic kids and, in any case, the fees, if paid privately, are about 60k/year, totally out of question. This ds is my #4 (and #1 is on the spectrum, HFA or whatever it may be called), so I have a pretty good feel for #4's issues. I have to add, as an aside, how wonderful the staff at Treehouse are, and how frustrating it was for me to hear (just as an SN parent) that their youngest child right now is about 6 because statementing and placement take so long. And, TotalChaos (that should be my name, btw), I wish I could place my ds in this ICAN nursery in Ealing.. but it takes dcs over 3yo only and statementing will take a year that ds can't afford to lose. It really is hard to get early intervention in the UK. We do have one year's educational allowance under my dh's relocation package, so we can pay while we wait for the statement, thank you Lord, but help me find a place! Really nothing in North London, it sounds like... ugh. I find it hard to imagine driving into central London daily. Help!

Just wanted to add that as of right now, I have not heard that EU laws are of any help once you change countries. Our dc#1 is statemented in Italy, with a dx of PDD-NOS, but I am pretty sure that it does not translate into a UK statement. I need to check on that. Ds #4 is not statemented in Italy because unless you are 100% uncommunicative, in Italy you get zero. I took him in for an eval here and the neuropsych (there are no dev peds here) said "Oh, Ma'am, he is not autistic, he makes eye contact!" So the hope is that things may be better in the UK. At least in the UK, if you have the money, you can purchase services, and just for next year, we can do that (dh begged for months for this assignment, after an ultimatum from me, but that's a different story).

I will ask my cronies for any ideas or recommendations and get back to you. I had thought of ICan but didn't know there was a nursery in Ealing. Can you apply for a place there with a view to sorting out Statementing and start a year or so from now? Also I would contact the SN depts of the borough you will be in or neighbouring boroughs and find out exactly what units, schools etc they have. It may mean the difference between choosing, say, Barnet over Haringey or Camden over Islington iyswim. Lots of the London boroughs have good websites so you can probably do it without making direct contact if you don't want to. There is also that Gabitas book/website about special needs schools and units which may be worth a look.
If CP or LCP turn out to be your best choice for the first year it might be a pain worth bearing! I think CP is outside the Congestion Charge Zone and not too hard to park so may be a better choice from that pov.
Another possibility might be the Ruth Jacobs practice which is now in GOlders Green (she used to own and practice at that very site now owned by LCP).
Will report back if I get any more ideas or info.l Please feel free to CAT me if you like.

I used christopher place
as other have found my anticipated hearing/communication/speech disorder was very quickly more accurately diagnosed as severe ASD.
the help they gave me was huge. Trainned me to help DS2 with his frustration and taught me to do all I could to expand his communication and encourage speech.
The ed psych on site was huge help too. we worked with him long after we realised that Christopeher place would not meet all DS2's needs.
great place.

Mamax4, have been thinking about this on the motorway today and I'm not sure that you shouldn't just go for CP. It fits a lot of your requirements and you could search a long time to find something as good or comparable. I also think you will crack the journey and not find it toooo difficult, you can always meet me for a cuppa! If you get in there you will then have time to start looking for the next place but from a position of stability. I will still ask the cronies though.

Ladies, please don't think me strange, but I love you all. I am so.. despirited and exhausted and worn out and wrung out and you are an amazing help and a ray of hope. I can't say it enough. Pagwatch, did you pay for CP yourself or did LEA pay? (This is not relevant for me, as getting anything through LEA is a long way away, but just wondering if others pay out of pocket there, as I will have to.) And, Davros, you think CP will be better than LCP? And I did check LCP's Golders Green location and they don't have a nursery there, only 1:1 ST and offices for evals and other therapies. Now that I know ds has no hearing issues, will CP take him for speech/communication delay only-- although what I have been reading about apraxia keeps saying that treatments for apraxic kids are basically identical to those for hearing-impaired kids. (Still hoping I'll be spared the ASD dx.)

Davros, I tried "CAT"ing you, but MN says you don't accept CAT e-mail. It says, "ask Davros to revise her settings" or "ask Davros to CAT you". I'll go check my settings to make sure I can be CAT'ted, but I think it costs $, so I certainly don't want you to pay to CAT me. Can you check your setttings? I would love to CAT you re. NL SN situation. I have both a 11yo HFA ds and a 2.5 yo speech-delayed ds and am completely stuck on the schooling situation for them both (the other 2 dcs in the middle are easy in comparison). THANK YOU, DAVROS!

Hmmm, its news to me that I don't accept CATs. I haven't got time now but I'll check later and sort it out.

Mamax4, sorry I haven't sorted out my MN membership so we can CAT. Mind you, I'm not aware of ever having a reminder from them. We are going away for 2 weeks tomorrow (first time in 15 years!) so I'll sort it out when I get back and hopefully be in touch then.

Hi Mamax4 - interested to read this chain as I am going through exactly same process as you for my little boy who is two and who has just been dx as having oral dispraxia (can't say very much at all, just few words and constanants), but also has delays with gross motor skills from low muscle tone. I'm based in Swiss Cottage and am going to look at LCP nursery this week - also have contacted Christopher's Place and may look at that, though not sure whether it is good plan to put him in nursery where none of the other children will be speaking much, as I suspect he'll learn from copying the other kdis also. Would love to know where you ended up and what your thoughts on all the options were.

I'm a salt and know CP very highly thought of. You would never find anything similar in a m/s school./

I'm a salt and know CP very highly thought of. You would never find anything similar in a m/s school./

No experience of CP but just wanted to reply to Hayley K's comment re:concerns about her DS not learning from other children. DS had severe language delay (expressive and receptive) at 3. I found that until his speech and understanding had improved (so that he was understanding at 3 word level and was able to put together very simple brief sentences/comments on environment spontaneously, he wasn't really benefitting speech wise from being with other kids (he was at mainstream private nursery). It was 1-1 work with me (and limited private SALT appointments) that helped bring him on. It's only once his language (both expressive and receptive) had started to improve that being with other kids without any language problems really helped.

Also bear in mind that a specialist language nursery such as CP is likely to be well versed in add-ons to speech such as signing, that can be extremely helpful to children struggling with speech production/word retriveal.

Thanks so much - it all makes perfect sense, especially as my DS is doing really nicely with Makaton - will call CP tomorrow and going to LCP as well to see if that's a good option. I'm pleased that your experience is that sn nursery at a young age is helpful and doesn't hinder language development, as I'd prefer for the therapies to be given mostly at school, so that my time with my little boy after school can be a bit more focused on having fun, without any guilt that each activity doesn't have a therapy benefit!

Plus I like the idea of there being other children in similar positions at the school - it's a bit depressing being around lots of kids who are much further ahead...

Hayley - just to clarify - my DS never went to SN nursery - but have spoken to local SALTs who teaching at SN nursery so know a little about how they emphasize signing as well as speech.

Hi Hayley, where did you get dx? I would be very surprised if it is through local NHS svs, esp at that age? Have you been in touch with Greenland Rd CDC? Also Family Info Worker there is very good. I live in Belsize Park so very near to you, CAT me if you want to get in touch.

Hi Davros, you're right - not yet dx through NHS - though we've finally got a place at Greenland Road and waiting for speech therapy appointment there. We were dx by paediatrician at the Portland who says that it isn't yet conclusive, but that she is diagnosing oral dispraxia at this stage and he's showing all the signs of it - - and that it leads on from the hypotonia/low muscle tone issues that he had. Just working out how to CAT now and will CAT you as soon as I've worked it out!!

now dx by specialist who spent years at nuffield...