Does your DC have GDD? When did they first speak?

[Arabica]

Just curious, as DD is 2 next month and is yet to say anything at all or even point at something and grunt at it...she is not thought to be AS though.

Arabica my DD2 was very similar to yours a couple of years ago, she had virtually no communication at all. (DD2 has GDD and hypotonia. She has no speech; she's 4 yrs 4 months.)

However she has made steady progress over the last couple of years, starting with eye pointing (she couldn't move her arms to point and couldn't make a pointy finger) then gesturing, then showing us what she wanted, then signing (Makaton). She now uses an augmentative communication aid and has loads of signs that she uses pretty well, as well as putting two or three signs together.

We've persevered with things, making her 'tell' us what she wants as much as possible and continually reinforcing her attempts to communicate. For example if she wanted a drink and was eye pointing to her cup I would say "Do you want a drink?" Then I would do hand-over-hand to make her sign yes, or help her nod her head, then I would say "well done, you told me yes you want a drink!". As she got more mobile and stronger I would help her sign 'drink'. It was frustrating but it seems she started to make the connections.

I still can't wait to hear her voice though - maybe one day eh?

oldcrock, your DD sounds like a real cutie--is she at school/nursery and if so, how do they help her to communicate?
Sidge, I am trying to get DD to tell me when she wants more food or when she wants her milk, but it's hard as I'm often not sure what she wants. She will deliberately walk over to the phone and lift it from its charging station, knowing that it's Not Allowed, looking me straight in the eye as she does so. So she does communicate to me in her own way. Just not in the way I'd like, ie hello, goodbye, I want a drink etc.

She goes to a special school for SLD - they use PECS with her there to a limited extent. I'm still not convinced she always makes definite choices. I do find it frustrating that she can't tell me what the matter is, I'm still guessing half the time.

DD is being statemented at the moment and is seeing the ed psych next week--maybe he can give me some ideas about what kind of school approach is best if she continues to have such delayed communication skills. I know it's early days as she isn't 2 until the end of the month, but I want to know my options!

Arabica - I know how you feel - DS3's contemporaries can do things like play I-spy now - and there is DS3 who can occasionally say the names of his favourite TV characters but that's about it.

Hey ho.

a reliable yes and no is a good place to start - so if she's def got the hang of the milk, work out a suitable yes/ no, and use it consistently with everything. do you want the milk? yes (and help her do the action) then she gets it. eventually you should get a yes response without helping. we were told use the OWL technique - observe, wait, listen, as there are generally non verbal cues if you leave it long enough... we used to tell people to wait until they thought she hadn't understood, and then count to ten slowly, as that generally gave dd2 enough time to process whatever it was and for her to react, otherwise it was like staring into the abyss... but IF you waited, there was usually a flicker of something going on!
dd2 was about 2 1/2 to 3 when we started to get somewhere really. we started makaton at about 18 months, and the first signs she made consistently were not to communicate, but to sing at nursery with her friends (thanks to dave benson phillips)
can slt loan you a big mack? if you're on specialkids in the uk, they have a lending service for members.
dd2 has been verbal from just over three - having been told she would always need AAC.

Hi Six Spot! It's hard not to compare, isn't it--DD's friend M can string whole sentences together. Which is more than I can do, sometimes.
Romy7, thanks so much for the ideas on communication which I really appreciate and will continue to act on. DD isn't very consistentalthough she seemed to know what we keep in the pink lunch-bag last week, this week she has been taking no notice at all and seems to lose interest when I try to get her to sign 'yes'. We think maybe she has been putting her energies into walking, and that's why...SALT seeing her next week so we will see what she says. Is the Big Mack a big circular thing you use as a communication aid? If so I don't think she is ready for it yet, I basically don't think she understands the concept of communication yetbut it's definitely something for the future. What's specialkids?

'special kids in the uk' - another forum. lots of users with all sorts of kids with all sorts of issues. v friendly!

yep - that's a big mack...
some kids start to use them just for nursery rhymes or something - as a cause and effect toy sort of? so every time she wants to hear it she knows she's got to touch it. you can record any message you want, so even 'hello i'm dd!'

you have got the makaton dvd anyway, haven't you? even if she's not 'ready' yet? (lecturing - but i swear it did the trick here - she suddenly grasped it was a two way process!)

No we haven't got the Makaton DVD, but she did wave at Mr Tumble last time she saw Something Special . And she joined in the clapping whilst I was watching Wimbledon. She is definitely much more communicative than she used to be.

As your child grows don't underestimate how much physcial difficulties can get in the way of communication. Even if they appear very physically able.

We've just started (this week) following a year long program which will hopefully lead to ds1 being able to type - he's understood what's expected of him this week quite easily (half to my surprise). Last night for example he realised he was meant to copy letters that I show him onto a computer via a keyboard. However I was totally stunned to find that he can't produce an independent point where the index finger is isolated. He can point with his index finger whilst the rest of his hand dangles hitting the wrong keys, or he can point with his middle finger with the rest of the hand closed- but a regular point- nope can't produce aged 9 - even though he can climb on bannisters, scale 8 foot walls and edge his way along tiny ledges and you would be hard put to notice any physical difficulties at all.

These movement problems have a huge impact on things like being able to produce Makaton signs and in his case speech. He did learn to manipulate PECS quite easily, but we did have to start with big chunky cardboard ones.

I guess I'm just saying when you work with your child remember they may be far more able than they can physically demonstrate (so don't give up ever!). After 9 years I thought I knew ds1's abilities pretty well, but last night, in seeing is problems with the point, and piecing together other stuff I realised just how hard it is for him to communicate for physical rather than cognitive reasons.

i think you make a very interesting point (pardon the pun) there JJ, how much are our LO's difficulties caused by physical difficulties, and how much by cognitive...?

I have wondered if Little Dot doesnt say anything other than "gog" because presently his mouth cant really form any other sound (though incidentally he can suck thru a straw)... we will have to wait and see.

I am coming to terms (finally) and really understanding that GDD really does mean GLOBAL - hes still a baby in essence, granted he may be able to feed hiself and walk, but some of his favourite games are those which a 6mth baby would enjoy. Physically hes 2yrs, but i understand that he may be a while before he gets to the point at which he has motivation and ability to speak.

DOH! but i have just remembered (whilst re-reading my post) that he did say things: Birr (bird), Do-Do-Do-Do (dummy), Roh (Ross his brother). Perhaps he lost the ability to say them as well as the understanding of them? Hes lost the ability and reasoning behind pointing, perhaps speech is no different.

I underestimated ds1's cognitive abilities and overestimated his speech processing and physical capabilities for years.

We had this too, MCAS. DD1 has definitely said "dzuh" (duck) and then later "orans" (orange) and "disses" (kisses). Though each was an unrepeatable out-of-the-blue incident and I do wonder what that's all about. Then she gradually lost all ability to make sounds other than screaming and grunting and they were just expressive sounds rather than communication iyswim. She's now playing with sounds again a bit - not nearly as sophisticated as before but now she's showing rudimentary signs of an interest in copying though it seems to come very hard to her.

My dim understanding is the ability to copy is sort of hard-wired at some level: I think one of the many things DD1 has missing is this wiring - she can learn by working stuff out for herself and she can learn (to an extent, she hates it) by hand-over-hand but she has no ability to learn eg a makaton sign by copying what she sees you do.

Jams, I often think how different her life would be (and mine too!) if I could only get inside her head for five minutes and work out what being her was like, what the problem really was. [sigh] Like you, I don't think she's as impaired cognitively as she seems - she just lacks all the skills you need to learn so she can't do anything with it.

Hi Arabica, dd3 is just starting to figure pointing out, still doesn't totally get it but it's coming slowly. She isn't motivated by food at all, unless it's chocolate, she picked that sign up in a week! We started off with "wheres daddy", "theres daddy" and lifting her hand in that direction, followed by lots of smiles and reaction from daddy. She eventually figured out that she should look at daddy when asked "wheres daddy" and we have slowly been able to introduce "wheres xyz" and to get her to look at other things. Now, she still won't point at daddy (because obviously he is sitting there, can't you see him, he is big enough!) but she has started pointing at toys she wants with the expectation that the toy will be given to her. We haven't cracked making choices yet, she still puts her hands out for both, even if we offer something we know she doesn't like. To get her to actually point her finger out we used toys with buttons and helped her shape her hand correctly.

Learning signs has been really hit and miss, funnily enough her first sign was please, despite having been concentrating on things like cat, dog, duck and doll. She is a bit of a milk monster so has picked that up along with "more" following on very soon after. Dd3 will only pick up the signs she wants, trying to figure out what she wants is the really hard bit! Using books for anything other than page turning or eating hasn't worked for us, maybe because of her poor eyesight, she finds things she can touch more interesting.

Dd3 had her first proper assessment with the ed psych yesterday, so hopefully we are heading for september panel, all the other reports have been done so fingers crossed we will get approval for a statutory assessment. From what I can figure out, they prioritise need so dd3s main need is her communication due to her hearing loss so we should get the hearing impaired base place for her and they should be able to manage her learning difficulties as well. Remember that the ed psych is not unbiased in giving advice so get as much info as you can yourself about what is available where you are, parent partnership in our lea is pretty good.

And if anyone could let me know where to get one of those crystal balls I'd be very grateful

R3 - very interesting read, thankyou for posting... i was finding it increasingly frustrating not knowing why our Little Dot had regressed...why had it happened? why would a seemingly healthy child lose abilities? I feel somewhat more at ease knowing (if only at a very basic level) WHY it happens -and in a sense- it being very nearly 'normal' in these conditions and circumstances. I know it sounds peculiar but I also find that I am bonding with him again as I felt before (after the 'grief' that I felt at 'losing' the son I thought I had before) as I learn more about the way he is. thankyou. xxx

ds1 lost speech as well. And sounds. So we have video of him at a year old with a snake saying 'sssssss' and a duck 'kwa kwa kwa' - both sounds he can't make now.

r3- we had to teach ds1 everything hand over hand until he was 7 and finally understood imitation. It's made a huge difference to his ability to learn. Don't get too disheartened I thought ds1 would never 'get' it- then it suddenly kicked in....

I am finding all the different responses very interesting. DD hasn't regressed at allshe is learning new things and keeping them, even if she tends to do some things (like babble the sound 'mumma') as a one-off just to get us all excited! She has now learned to make a 'thumbs up' gesture (as in makaton for 'good'), but she isn't as yet using it to communicate, just copyingsame with 'hello'.

The fact that she's copying is really good though. Especially at such a young age. Imitation really is supposedly to develop speech so if spontaneous copying is already in place that's great.

Yes, I think she really is getting somewhere. We have a SALT appointment this week, so it will be interesting to hear what she thinks.

Good luck at the SALT Arabica, let us know how it goes

Thanks, this week we have:
Ed psych
SALT
family therapy
OT (doing an assessment as she is nearly 2)
and portage

good luck from me too!

Arabica can I be nosey and ask what "family therapy" entails? Haven't come across that one in the context of SN.

It's part of the service they offer to NT siblings of SN kids. DS had a problem with poo, which I felt was related to DD turning up and taking all the attention. So I asked if we could see a psychotherapist. So far it's worked wonders (fingers crossed emoticon)