This isnt "normal" behaviour is it?

[jenk1]

DD who is being re-asessed for ASD as the paed listened to school and the ed psych who said no (despite her findings of a year ago which said YES), the SLT say her speech is within normal limits BUT............

Is it "normal" (and i hate that word but cant think of another) for a 4 yr old little girl to say the following.

To a stranger in the street

"hey do you wear nappies, i do, im R and im 4"

To my next door neighbour

"have you had a poo today, did you wipe your bum, did you do a poo on the toilet, when you had your dd did you do a poo and she fell out"

to the playworker at the hospital last week

"you know what? daddy and DS did a wee in the trees, -this was 18 mths ago we had to stop on the way back from holiday.

to my sister

"he,s a shithead him isnt he"-referring to her dad just out of the blue

how can they say there is nothing wrong with her expressive language?

In what ways do you think it is wrong?

I think that what you mean is that it may be inappropriate socially to say these things to strangers. I think that your dd is a bit obsessed with going to the toilet, but I don't know what else she talks about. Have they been talking to her about it at nursery?
She may be repeating in her own conversations what she hears in nursery.
She does have good sentences, I think. Does she use pronouns appropriately?
My 5 year old still gets mixed up.
Sorry if not much help.

By expressive language they surely mean that she can structure sentences and express herself well, rather than looking at whether the content of the sentences is socially appropriate? like deeja I wonder if your DD is hearing a lot of toilet training talk at nursery so that's why it's coming out in her conversation?

the "shithead" comment - I don't think it's that unusual for kids to parrot back things like that without quite knowing what they mean, so unintentionally making incredibly rude comments.

A lot of kids do get kind of obsessed about toilets and breaking wind etc - sometimes they like to test boundries being a bit rude and stuff - could she be trying to get a reaction from you? I don't think the remembering the wee in the trees is that unusual - mine are always dragging up some small detail best forgotten and like TotalChaos said the 'shithead' comment is probably just parroting what she's heard somewhere. She forms quite good questions though doesn't she!

IIRC the SALT assesses expressive language by looking at the information the child is able to get across and the way they structure their sentences. I suppose that if you look at your dd's sentences in that context then technically her expressive language seems okay from a SALT point of view. With an ASD assessment they usually have to look at the whole of the language skills though. Ds2's latest SALT report, for example, shows very good expressive language but "significant difficulties" with receptive language. An assessment should IMO be looking at the child as a whole and how all the different areas fit together.

Hard to know really how unusual this is. Have just had my 6-year-old NT nephew staying and certainly you get to hear a remarkable amount of potty talk- but I don't think he's approaching strangers in the street with it. It's that aspect rather than the things she says that might be worrying. But some children are very late in developing reserve.

On the other hand, you have a hunch that something is wrong and that is so often the first genuine indicator that something is wrong.

Ds1's expressive language is better than his receptive, but it's still off kilter. For example, he still has a lot of echolalia at nearly 5. He loves telling you things about himself now, but these are brief factual statements and he loves to list other people with the statements. Eg "T have red hair. And J have red hair. A have yellow hair. And S have brown hair." Or "T a boy and J a boy. L a girl and E a girl." He'll use odd ways of asking about things, eg if he wants something to eat it's "Need some hungry" (and "hungry" also means weetabix, though he doesn't always want that). When he gets some food he looks at it and goes "Oh! That not a hungry weetabix, it a (insert name of food)". He places a lot of emphasis on mumbers to refer to things. A shopping centre in town in "number 20". The lifts are "down a number 1 and up a number 3" or "down a number 4". "Back a number 14" means he wants to go home and "71 please!" is for Cbeebies.

BULLET: DS1 had the same sort of problem at around 4-7yrs.. IE 'burgers-and-fries'was ANY food at macdonalds. or he would offer you a piece of his 'birthday' - meaning cake in that respect, but equally he liked receiving and opening 'birthdays' with their bright paper and toy inside. He has ADHD and didnt use language other people could understand until he was over 4yrs.

Jenk1: the topic sounds a bit obsessive, and probably inappropriate to many people but IMHO the sentences sound well constructed - and a very inquisitive mind!

i have a just 4yo boy who is as far as i know NT. He does a lot of toilet talk in the house

eg follows his big sister around shouting

" poo wee wee jobby penis" etc and laughing hysterically

pulls down his pants and waves his bits around, laughing

But, if he still wore nappies he woulndn't tell anyone as he thinks nappies are for babies. eg he doesn't let on that he still has a bottle. He would be embarassed

He doesn't do this outside or when we have visitors. he seems to know that you dont talk about these things to strangers

is your DD trying to be funny/showing off or is she just discussing it as normal conversation?

I think at four years old lots of children are still saying inappropriate things. I'm not sure how normal it is to say them to complete strangers, as opposed to someone they child hasn't met before, but who they can see is interacting with a familiar adult. Eg the child might say something inappropriate to the doctor her mum is speaking to, but might not necessarily go up to someone in a shop and say something inappropriate.

ah its me getting the expressive bit mixed up.

yes she does seem to be obsessed with toilets,potties but thats nursery who have been obsessed with getting her toilet trained in time for september which she has refused.

i meant that its socially inappropriate i think to go up to a stranger and say that, but then thats her all over!!!!
she confuses me, whereas DS wouldnt have dreamed of talking to a stranger and was more withdrawn and happy in his own company she either wants to interact but does so strangely or screams if people try to interact with her.
yes she does have good language but i think its the way she uses it that is strange, she also repeats bits of conversations and mimics accents.
dont know if i would say she HAS a speech problem, more that its the way she uses it.
thanks for the replies theyve helped me understand.

kristina-no i dont think she,s trying to be funny, she just says it as part of her conversation, cos if anyone laughs she usually says very loud NOT FUNNY and gets upset.

then I'm not sure if its " normal", as in i don't think most 4yo do this. sorry

shoudl point out that i knwo NOTHING about ASD, just posting as mum of NT 4yo

There's 3 categories for social interaction issues wrt ASDs I believe: Aloof, Passive (eg plays if invited but certain things only, like my DS) and 'Active but Odd.' Can you see which one popped into my head re your DD?
If she had AS there wouldn't necessarily be any speech probs at age 4. Does/has she tick/ed many boxes on here? Red Flags