Does anyone get intensive ABA therapy paid for- either at home or at nursery? I am the American interloper here, poss moving to UK w/2.5yo ds who is speech-delayed and poss on the spectrum.

[Mamax4]

If I may compare, in the US, a young dc would be referred to "Early Intervention" and if determined "delayed", even without a formal dx, he might get free, several hrs a day therapy, which may be ST, OT, ABA, as appropriate. I see a lot of talk here about SALTs, but not much about ABA. Is it not practiced in the UK? For a nursery-aged child, where is ABA offered (if it is offered)? Thanks, as usual, ladies!

Oy, I don't know. I honestly don't care what we call it, but my HFA autistic son is rolling on the floor right now, howling because I don't have the toothbrush of the right color for him, refusing to go to school, refusing to pick up his socks (YOU DO IT! I AM NOT YOUR SLAVE!)... I can't accept this behavior, and our family dynamic has been hijacked by it, but I also know that this behavior damages HIS ability to have a normal life. This behavior is not good for HIM. He can't have friends, he can't focus on school work, he can't even get himself dressed on bad morning.. and he is considered high functioning. So, sure, he is not "wrong" nor is he "bad" but he is falling apart. Ok, I am not "curing" him, but I must help him function. And that means behaving differently. That means brushing his teeth and not howling and not rolling on the floor when he is frustrated (he is almost 11). Frankly, we teach exact same things to NT children and adults (you want to get your salary? you come to work on time and work. You don't want your driver's license yanked? don't drink while you drive). So it's really not different from anyone else, whatever we call it. I had to miss work today because my 11yo is uncontrollable. This is not good for anyone. At a certain point, if I keep "accepting him the way he is", he won't have anything to eat bc I won't be able to work.

Gawd, aversives went out years ago. They formed part of the first trial of ABA in the 60s. We never used aversives, we always used positive reinforcement, reinforcing other behaviour, ignoring behaviour and redirecting, prompting, improving communication etc etc. I agree with you Leonie about the whole "cure" thing because, apart from anything else, it aint going to happen but I also think it is important to accept our children's autism and not always try to change them into something they are not, you don't have to like it though! But I also very much agree with Mamax, that unless we teach our son not to behave in certain ways (e.g. spitting in peoples' faces, flicking poo etc)he cannot access his own life including the things he loves doing. All of us just want our children to be happy and, for us, that would be very much further beyond our reach without ABA when he was young. Because I can manage him out and about I can take him to things ("come here" program), because he uses PECs and Makaton other people can do things with him, otherwise he would be confined to home and so would we. Trying to make him into a different person is very different to helping him function as well as possible as himself.

LeonieD, I think you may be slightly misinformed. I am by no means an ABA expert and my DS is not autistic (he has GDD) so apologies if I am talking out of turn here, but I have been using ABA with DS and I think it is fabulous.

I have learnt so much from it: how to motivate DS to learn, how to positively reinforce him, how to avoid undesirable behaviour, in fact how to be a positive parent and "teacher". I am so happy I came across ABA. I think every school and teacher should study this "way of teaching" because i think it's principles could be applied with great success with any child.

I don't have a full-on programme in place for DS because I don't have the funds, but the little I do has had great impact.

The NAS, like most of the UK autism "establishment", is prejudiced against ABA and has out-of-date and uninformed opinions. Those opinions kept me from trying ABA for two wasted years, and I wish I had started earlier as it has been so successful for my DS (who is not high functioning). My ABA tutors are young, loving, fun people who use my child's own motivation to get him to talk and behave better. We used very mild aversives to stop him hitting, kickingand biting; since he's going to be bigger than me any day now, and since he would end up in prison or worse if he was still aggressive at 6ft 5 inches, I see nothing wrong in that. I know he is autistic, I know there is no cure, but anti-social behaviour still has to be changed and I also believe some stims have to be kept for only private time, if he is to have any human dignity - example: he cannot go around playing with his willy in public as he gets bigger, so we used ABA to retrain that behaviour. I don't talk of cure, and I do also get annoyed by some of the US sites which talk of "rescuing" children from autism, but I do think it's right to talk of management and retraining of behaviour - for his dignity and my sanity!

I think we are more in agreement than not Leonie D, but my point is that lots of the existing state and private autism provision in this country just doesn't work for my DS, and it annoys me that the state won't open its eyes to the great benefits ABA can have for autistic kids, or at least for the kids that I have seen go through it. Example: for the first two years after diagnosis I sent my DS to a highly regarded autistic nursery, for which we paid a lot of money as we couldn't get the state to pay for it. We actually had to remortgage the house. Yet their only solution when I asked how to stop him hitting and biting (other kids, teachers, me) was "you've got to praise him when he's NOT hitting". Well excuse me, but I think that's a pretty complex concept for a nf kid, let alone my (then) non verbal and quite severely autistic son. I think people forget that you need carrot and stick (not literally, I would NEVER hit a child) but that rewards and praise and the naughty step just won't do it for all kids. Yet many of us are treated as if we are in some kind of cult if we "go over to ABA", and have to fight tooth and nail to get funding. Why? Why, if something works for so many kids, are we made to justify it so hard, when methods such as TEACCH are used in practically all autistic state schools and are totally unproven (and indeed, for me, totally useless). That's all, I'm not saying this anti you Leonie, it just frustrates me that I have to fight the state's anti-ABA prejudice on top of everything else on my plate!

Like LeonieD I think the behaviour management side of ABA is widely used, either informally by many parents, or more formally by professionals, although they would not call it ABA but behavioural strategies, behavioural management etc. Most education, leisure and other provisions we attend use behavioural approaches in one form or another including visual strategies. The other side of ABA though is teaching, it is not just about behaviour management. It includes close observation and data taking to ensure objective assessment of progress (or otherwise), difficulties, triggers etc. Reinforcement should be somewhat scientific and what is used should be proven to actually reinforce that child, not just something that we think does and it is constantly ongoing. That is the side of ABA that most people miss altogether when they get vague or incorrect descriptions of it. I agree totally that the NAS should change its description of ABA and I think I wrote to them once, many moons ago, to suggest it. As usual, I let it go as I can't be arsed to be the ABA Police! But it is frightening how many people are put off, are given false impressions and downright discouraged from even considering ABA or a version of it that would work for them. Grrrrrrrrrr!

Dear ancientmiddleagedmum re comment Wed 11-Jun-08

I am v interested in ABA for my 8 year old son, we live in Surrey and I have heard of Duncan Fennemore. I was wondering if you could give me more info on approaching the LEA and any other advice please. How is it going in your experience of it?

Hiya - not much to add here other than to say we started ABA 2 months ago (with Duncan F) for my 2.9 DS1 and it has been nothing short of sensational. there are no questions in my mind as to how effective it has been in my sons development and that of the choices out there, that it is the best for our family.

ABA takes lots from common sense parenting and applys it with focus, direction and science. When i look at how I was attempting to help my son 2 months ago i was trying a lot of different things without direction or any sort of quantifiable results. To have a clear map of exactly where my son has development issues nad a dynamic plan at hand to address these is a godsend to my peace of mind.

ABA has enriched our lives significantly in jusy a couple of months. THe interaction I am able to have with ym son now has his father ad I beaming every night. The lifeof my sonI suspect is as good as life can be for a kid his age. He has wonderful friends coming into his world every day lavishing him with attention and praise (aversives?!?!? None in my program - unless you call looking away during a tantrum cruel) He LOVES it and runds to the door giggling when his tutors arrive!

The negativity I hear about ABA frustrates me becuase it is uninformed nad out-of-date. From the SALT to the NAS to a friend of my MIL - argh - just come to my house, watch a session and THEN tell me it's a bad ting!! So I dont really need to hear people's 2 cents unless they have done the research and seen ABA in action. I know not everyone has an ABA programme like mine, but I honestly feel like it is hte best thing we have ever done for our son and hte things I am learning I will use with DS2 also.

I have just started my SEN statement process and will take the LEA to battle in hte coming months I suspect. Hopefully with enough data as to the effectiveness of ABA to secure me some money.

dont move to Esses you have to fight for everything salt,ot physio etc ,EI is a laughing joke here took me 18 months of fight to see a salt for my at start non verbal 2 yea r old and we got 1 visit every 3 months and now fighting to ge tmore than the 1 lousy visit a term for my still non verbal 4 year old .Im cosidering moving away from area just so we can get better service

Great post Mum2.
I am a SALT who is just completing my MSc in ABA.
It is truly the most exciting and relevant addition to my basic training out of everything I have do SALT in the 15 years as a SALT.

No approach can even begin to equal it in terms of its reliance on research and data.

Truly incredible.
Not a magic cure and it takes huge energy and commitment bu by God, it's head and shoulders above any other sad outdated confused mishmash you will be offered by statutory services.

Hi guys,

I am a psychologist training to do ABA therapy.

I have a test to do soon. I wonder if I could pick the brains of an experienced ABA therapist.

Is there an ABA therapist who wouldn?t mind chatting with me for a couple of hours through some practical questions?

Many thanks,

Mikki

Another American here, although I've been living in the UK for a number of years now. DS2 has numerous appointments with various medical personnel, but not once has ABA been uttered. I wouldn't know it if it clubbed me upside the head, as I've not done much research on it. TBH, I'm buried under mountains of paperwork for about a million other things, and it's on my "to do" list at present.

I think we're pretty much "middle of the road" here though. I accept that there are some things that need adjustment in some way for DS2 to cope. But there are certain things that at the bottom line are not flexible - specific house rules, safety, etc. That's just the way it is. Positive reinforcement, rewards, praise, opportunities to build up confidence - those things are general parenting tools, as far as I was aware.

I wouldn't even know how to approach the thought of ABA therapy and obtaining some for DS2.

Hi,
Joining in this discussion a bit late. Learned today that the child psychiatry service had, 2 years ago, apparently told us our child has ASD at the same time he was diagnosed with ADHD, but we (allegedly) chose not to label him as ASD so it didn't go on his record (and the discussion has somehow also been miraculously erased from my memory as well). So now that we (finally) know the full diagnoses (which explains a lot of behaviours) I'm starting to read about strategies for dealing with ASD, and reading these ABA posts. Is ABA ever used for 8 year olds? Would be useful to have something other than naughty stairs, reward charts and threats to cancel favoured events, raising the voice etc......these methods are becoming less effective over time and I need new strategies.

Thanks PipinJo. TBH, I won't even attempt to get LA to pay for it - we must choose our battles and save our energy and right now I'm headed towards a war with LA over school provision....but will check out options for some private coaching and support on ABA. Thanks

PipinJo, please tell me more about the 9 yr old.

Hi there, I'm new to Mums Net, and internet chat in general, and have just learned that what I did above is called 'hijaking the thread'. Apologies

Hi Mikki - i am a BCBA and would be happy to chat with you - although maybe you have already done your test ... Cathy ([email protected])

can I ask what specifically is different about ABA as when im reading about it it say's about reward systems which DS's SS already use, must be much more to it how is it implemented, I hope you dont mind me asking I know nothing about ABA , what ive googled and read on MN everyone say's how wonderful it is but not how they actually do it (my ds was only dx a year ago).