sorry but I have to say it. where do all the stirres come from

[2shoes]

I seem to have spent the last week argueing the toss with trouble makers who insist on their right to use words even if they cause offence.
I can post and moan in here as this is my "home"
surely it is easy not to use words like midget, spaz, mong or even stupid if you are told they cause offence.
(sorry I soooooo needed to moan)

I think there's a big difference between a disabled person who can make their own choices/live an independent life and respond to the idiots out there compared to one who will never be in that position.

One day dh and I will be dead and gone and ds1 will rely on the 'community' for care. Recently the 'community' seems to think that torturing then killing people with learning disabilities is a reasonable course of action.

Funnily enough I'm fairly intolerant of ignorant comments as that's the start- the end being another learning disabled person pushed off a bridge. But hey ho its ok as they're just a retard aren't they.

I saw the 'killing a disabled child' thread.
If someone had posted saying they had thought seriously about killing a neighbour's (NT) child, would there have been a different reaction?

'What was the point in fighting all of this?'

because like 2shoes says, when i'm dead i need others top be well educated enough to care for ds3 (not sure what level of care but some); ds1 will also need some level of continued input I think.

Doing my absolute best to ensure the people around them understand SN issues is perhaps one f the things I can do to prepare for that.

It's no different imo to access issues for the phyasically disabled either- its just that to be able top attain maximum independence the physically disabled may need for eg. ramps, wheelchairs, loop hearing support. For m ds's it's positive attitudes they need to actualise outside their learning disbility.

FWIW agree about nutter- dh has recurrent mental health issues and i loathe the tying up between people who involuntarily suffer mental health prblems and people who just cant be bothered or make silly decisions / get drugged up.

i used nutter on another thread. I used it to make a point to someone( a namechanger) that words do hurt. it worked.

I dont understand how people could but think otherwise! its painfully clear they do- the pen is mightier than the sword and all that. And its the words people use without care that wound most- the child who is called stupid learns that this is true (that happened to me, teacher at school called me cretin and I believed her. Just to show, I got A in finals)

tbh i didn't get the word "stupid" started a thread about it and got some very good reasons as to why it is a bad word. I learnt. so would not use it now. it is sooooo easy.

I hated the words used in some of the other threads and I would ALWAYS correct someone using an offensive word or term.

I was at a works night out last week and was talking to a colleague (highly educated) about DS2 and how he was to start school soon etc. She asked me if I thought it was right for him to go to mainstream because maybe it would be better for him to be with his 'own kind'. I told her very politely that he was not a different species just a small boy with difficulties!

I felt a little for her in the end as she just hadn't thought about what she was about to say, hopefully she will in future.

I also agree with an earlier comment about the differences between leading an independant life and being able to correct people for themselves. We're in a very grey area as to whether DS2 will be able to that, but I like to think that the children he grows up around will have had the benefit of knowing someone with special needs so they do not repeat the mistakes of some adults today.

um
FFSSHUTUP
can I just point out that you posted seven times in quite irate terms..
to make the point that people should not be bothered by what others say

Rearrange these words into a well known phrase or saying
goal own total

It would seem that the phrase ?there is none so blind as those who will not see? applies so appropriately to so many on these boards.

There is a vast difference imo to calling someone a nutter and calling someone a retard/spaz/mong. And the reason is:

Spaz (derived from the word ?spastic? which is a form of cerebral palsy).
Retard(derived from the word ?retardation? used to clarify the condition of someone with learning difficulties, ie ?is mentally retarded/diagnosed with mental retardation?.
Mong (derived from the word Mongole, used to describe someone with Downs syndrome).

To the best of my knowledge, there is no medical condition called ?nuts/nutism/nutterness? however if someone can point me in the direction of evidence that nut is in any way used as part of a specific condition, then I will file nutter up there with the rest of the above offensive terms. But until then, nutter is just a word, whereas the rest are specifically intended to be offensive.

The difference between someone who is deaf/blind/otherwise physically disabled taking offence and someone who has a learning disability is that those with physical disabilities are perfectly able to speak out for themselves if terms cause offence. Those with learning difficulties do not have that luxury, and it therefore falls to those who care for them/look out for them to do it on their behalf.

I have heard people with VI refer to themselves as ?blindies/blindoes? as well, and although I don?t find it particularly offensive (it?s their choice after all) I think it?s a ghastly term personally, but each to their own I suppose.

Just have to vent - My supposedly educated and socially adept MIL uses the word "thicko" with alarming regularity to refer to any non NT person she encounters. I was initially stunned into silence by the sheer ignorance of it, particularly given her own grandchild's difficulties, but it makes me seethe with anger and I've got a little speech prepared for her the next time it comes out - to hell with family harmony!

I think there is a great difference in a grown up with a disability that does not affect their communication, being able to decide for them selves what offends and what doesn't, compared to a child/adult who cannot communicate clearly.
when you have a child with a sn that means they cannot communicate clearly you become their voice. Also in the noraml cycle of things a parent would normally be backing of when a child reaches secondry age(for example) and allowing the child to start to fight their own battles and enjoy more freedom. when your child has severe sn this is most unlikely to happen. so the parent continues in the protective role.
so to have to see people making out that we are over reacting to the use of "bad" words and to tell us to ignore is wrong
we have to protect our children and to stop them from being hurt. if we don't who the hell will.

i think the reaon nutter matters (imo) is because yes its not a medical term but it does refer- in most peoples minds- yto mental health. The abuse dh has ha in the past for having had severe mental health issues! there was a thread on here that went nasty and mn had to intervene where somebody laid into himin really offensive terms, swearing. just because he had depression.

I think imo the question should really be- why can't we just not call people names? we can say 'that wasnt a nice / clever / kind thing to di'- instead we throw abuse. why?

fwiw i think nutter is a very old term- its in that nursery rhyme about sectioning people isnt it, here we go gathering nuts in may? does it originate ftom nut as in head?

I think here we go gathering nuts in May is fairly innocent

this credits Jasper Carrot with making it a well known phrase so I think it's fairly recent. Also if you look at how the change in Nutter surname- far more recent than the nursery rhyme.

i read it was otherwise but there you go

still dont like people equating severe mental illness with negative personalities, guess im on my own there then

So would you take offense if I said something like "Ds's lack of sleep is driving me nuts" ?

I think (and it's just my humble opinion!! so please bear with me)you need to take into actual the context in which the word is used.

For example: I think the word retard is absolutely terrible. (I find it difficult to even type it). But, the word stupid, it can be an insult, but it is also used by young people in a very innoffensive way. (I've heard my nieces say things like, "Oh don't be stupid, ofcourse I'll call you" or something along those lines.)

Now, my DS has a brain atrophy, which has caused his general developmental delay. Do I think he is stupid? Hell NO, I think he is brilliant, because despite having his brain atrophy and having to work twice as hard as kids his age he is learning so much, and I am not just saying this, I think he is really clever. And I am going to make sure he knows this.

I don't want to cover him in cotton wool, he will hear the word stupid at some point. And when this happens I would like to him to just brush it off and have enough confidence in himself to know how clever he is. If I make a big deal of it, I think it will hurt him much more.

I know this doesn't apply to all kids with SN, but that is what I feel in my case.

should have read: "you need to take into account the context in which the word is used"
sorry for my typing (yes I am suffering from lack of sleep).

no its more when some bloke is kicking off swearing etc and he's referred to as a nutter iyswim? the assumption, i suppose, that people with mental health issues are all screeching aggressive types .

Stupid is one I never considere in terms of SN- i dont like it because of the self fulfilling prophecy aspect but i don't think its ever occurred to me that ds1 and ds3 are stupid, or in any way linked gto that phrase. DS1 has increasingly (we dont know why) limited abilities academically, but he's clearly not stupifd- ds3 is very limioted ins ome areas but shines very brightly in others (computing, maths etc).

Thanks for clarifying that peachy.

By the way, I only used "stupid" as an example as it was mentioned earlier in this thread.

well.. having read peachys reasons for feeling the word nutter is offensive. I for one won't be using it it. I have to say I always thought it came from "nut house" as as lunatic asylum. they would now be called psychiatric units (or something like that)
it might be slanf but I can understand the offence.

Peachy - I agree re:severe mental illness. Such a stigma attached to any mental illness at times = certainly I would feel uncomfortable disclosing my minorish mental health history at job application stage say. And I get very at pathetic jokes about schizophrenia along the "I and I" dual personality lines.

Re:nutter - I always thought it came from Alice Nutter, victim of the Pendle Witch Trials

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_Nutter_%28witch%29

ds1 is definitely a lunatic. The moon has a big effect on him. It's even in his school report this year! "ds1 can have periods of relative calm but this can quickly revert in moments of 'different' or it may sometimes be due to tiredness/full moon" (which goes hand in hand as 90% of nightwakings coincide with full moon).