No support, nobody cares

[moofish]

I have a severely autistic 8 year old DS, and a 1 year old. DS is hardly ever at school between illnesses, sleep issues etc. So im just trapped in the house all the time as i cant leave the house by myself with both kids due to DS behaviour. DS goes to his dads a few nights a week but most days hes with me and i have no help from anyone. Ive tried getting help from different places and nobody helps. CAMHS rejected referral. Ive phoned social services begging for help multiple times they just tell me i need to get support from school. School doesnt care his teacher will ring me once a month or so to ask how i am but shes very fake and i get the impression shes happy on days hes not there. When he is there they send him home quite a lot, most recently because he was crying and hitting people, turned out he had something stuck to his finger which they hadnt noticed. We were having "early help" meetings with another woman at the school and she applied for a PA for us but that got rejected and doesnt seem like anything else is happening. That woman was supposed to come do a home visit last week but didnt turn up. His paediatrician just tells me to talk to social services again but whats the point they dont want to help. Everyone tells me to talk to my gp if im feeling low but all they do is offer me antidepressants that dont work. Ive got no friends they all ghosted me i think they got sick of me being miserable all the time. Ive got no time to do anything for myself. Im just a prisoner in my own home ive barely been able to leave the house for months. It feels pointless being alive

Rather than phoning social care, formally request social care assessments in writing. A carer’s assessment for you and an assessment by the children with disabilities team for DS. On their website, Contact has model letters for both that you can use. Formally requesting assessments means you can challenge a refusal to undertake assessments &/or a refusal to provide support/not enough or the right sort of support.

Also look at your local short breaks offer.

If Home Start operates in your area, it is worth contacting them too.

Does DS have an EHCP?

When you say the school is sending DS home a lot, do you mean they are formally suspending him?

Does DS take anything to help with sleep?

Has DS had a home OT assessment?

Social care did do an assessment which involved them just coming to my house for 5 minutes, looked around then deciding theyd come back another day because it was too difficult to have a conversation with DS there. Then they visited his school and then they told me school would support me and there was "currently no role for social care" and that was it.

We did also have an OT assessment but its been almost a year and theyve only done one of the adaptations so far (protection over his bedroom window). The garden adaptations recommended were rejected. Theres a couple other things meant to be done in the house but they didnt want to do a huge amount because im going to be moving at some point as we need a bigger house but probably be years to get one on the council list.

Yes he has an ehcp and is at a sen school.

Hes prescribed melatonin and clonidine but he wont take it most of the time and when he does it doesnt stop him waking up in the night

School havent suspended him its just hes off ill a lot and when he goes back after the latest weeks off they always seem to be looking for any opportunity to say he must still not be feeling well and needs to come home. And they dont care how much hes off ill i dont even bother calling to let them know he wont be in anymore and nobody gets in touch to see where he is or anything.

Doctors cant examine him and dont care either so we cant even get to the bottom of all his health issues. Just feel like weve been abandoned really

Did you formally challenge the social care decision? You can complain, ask for an independent review, complain to the LGO. If it wasn’t recently, request new assessments then, if refused, challenge the decision. Depending on specifics, JR may be possible. If you ever appeal the education side of the EHCP, you can ask SENDIST to also look at social care provision.

You need an early review of the EHCP. On their website, ISPEA has a model letter you can use. What support is in the EHCP currently?

If you don’t think DS needs to be collected, you don’t have to collect DS when the school call if you don’t want to.

I would chase the adaptations.

If you are unhappy with the current healthcare, have you asked to be referred elsewhere? I would also ask to try another medication to aid sleep.

What kind of illness/medical problems is he struggling with?

what behaviour problems are you having when you take him out?

I hope you're doing a bit better OP as you sounded really low. I have a ds 5.5 with severe LD and ASD and it's bloody hard work. And you're right - no one cares. That's been the kicker for me. Before I had a disabled child I thought disabled children got extra appointments, parents got support services...and there's really nothing. I'm lucky ds school is good. Can you arrange a meeting with the school? They really should be better here especially if they're a Sen school.

I know the feeling. The nursary said we needed help in June, to help over summer holidays. The team got in touch in late October to say they are over capacity and still can't provide a date. The CYP autism service says triage is 6 months, but at 9 months we are still waiting.

To add more salt, we secured a school placement for September, they have availability, but the LA has decided to name another school that won't engage , let us view it for suitably. Because and I quote it's a maintained school so it's cheaper, not that it meets the needs of the child. So we have to goto tribunal, which takes 9 months, but the school says they'll be full by February. So even if we win in tribunal, we'll still lose as the school made it clear when they are full, they are full due to nature of the children they look after 😔 and spots only open when children age out at 19.

So even if we win in tribunal, we'll still lose as the school made it clear when they are full, they are full due to nature of the children they look after 😔 and spots only open when children age out at 19.

This isn’t how it works.

If the school is not wholly independent (e.g. it is a section 41 independent school, a non-maintained special school, an academy, etc.), on its own being full is not enough of a reason to refuse to name your preferred placement. The LA has to prove the school is so full admitting DS is incompatible with the efficient education of others or efficient use of resources. The bar for this is higher than LAs and many schools admit. It has to be something tangible and specific and is more than an “adverse effect”, “impact on” or “prejudicial to”. If the LA can’t meet this bar, the school can be named even if the school objects. So you can often ‘win’ appeals even if the LA/school claim they are full and once the school is named, they must admit even if they claim to be ‘full’.

If the school is wholly independent, SENDIST cannot Order it be named unless the school agrees to be named. If the school is full, they will withdraw their offer. If they know they will be full by a specific date, they will put an end date on their offer/POP until which date they will hold the place. So if by ‘win’ you mean get the school named, you won’t be able to do that if the school says they are too full to offer a place.

Places don't only come up at 19. Even in all-through schools, phase transfer years are still phase transfer years. Just because a LA agrees to name a school for, e.g. primary education, doesn’t mean they will agree to name it for secondary. Same for secondary to post 16. People also move and places open up. Children’s needs sometimes change as they grow up and some need a change of placement or move to EOTAS/EOTIS/C.

I don't want to hihack the OPs thread.

It is a section 41 school, they have very specific classroom sizes. No more than 4 children, and the school will withdraw the offer within a couple of months. Last I checked they had 3 places and over 60 consulations in progress. They said they are named in tribunals and have successfully defended their classroom sizes. The school is no doubt expensive, it's price range is listed in the Ofsted report, but so far is the only one that has let us visit so we can see the needs would be met, and has the safe guards in place. It's also the only autism specific school within 40 minutes.

So by win, I mean if we can argue that this school is the right placement to meet need, then by the time of the tribunal date, the school will have already withdrawn their offer. So it would feel like a pointless battle because the LA is able to delay the process to the point the school would withdraw and defend any attempt to name them.

We hope he would transition to mainstream, but it's not happened and we will continue to monitor their progress, but their Autism at the moment is becoming more apparent with greater needs.

It appears we are going down EOTAS against our wishes from January-July, but that's another thing we are looking into.

@Will36 it doesn’t work like you have been led to believe it does. I suggest you read up about the law and case law to understand the actual law rather than what the LA and school would like you to believe. IPSEA and SOSSEN are good places to start.

For section 41 schools, the school can’t withdraw the offer. It doesn’t work like that. They are not wholly independent, therefore an offer of a place is not required. They can be named even if the school objects. They must be named unless one of the lawful exceptions is proven by the LA. And if they are named, they must admit and can be forced to if they try to refuse.

Being ‘full’ is not enough to refuse to name your preference. The bar to prove the legal threshold of incompatibility is far higher than LAs and many schools admit. This is far more than just full. On its own, it is also more than a blanket policy of 4 per classroom.

If you want DS to attend the mainstream that is named currently, you can force them to admit, including via JR if necessary.

Might have wires crossed, LA have named a maintained school, not a mainstream one, as we know they won't be able to attend mainstream.

I've read over the ipsea and sossen sites many times and they have been very useful.

Mainstream is the closest school, and cachement school. They have said cannot meet need, and we do not disagree. There are 60+ children in the room, as it's an open layout. His EHCP limits classroom size to 6, with consistent key staff.

Maintained specialist is geographically closer, but by car travel is slightly longer away. It's a "generic" school that caters for all disabilities, not just Autism. We know 2 children at this school currently with cerebral palsy. This school is already oversubscribed but the LA is naming it anyway, which is better than forcing EOTAS from September.

The section 41 school, is 20mins away. It's an Autism specific school. It takes children only with autism, many at the "upper" range of the spectrum. It has an extensive program of sensory regulation to try and get them classroom ready, onsite OT and SALT to help them. They have limited spaces available, not oversubscribed, but it's expensive, I believe in the ~£80k range.

The section 41 school was named in the draft EHCP under parental comments. The LA are instead naming the maintained specialist school because it is cheaper (efficient use of resources).

If we goto tribunal to name the section 41 school, by the date of the tribunal the school will not be able to take him, as it would be incompatible with the EHCPs of the other children. We had talked to the school about this previously and they had told us that the tribunal has been rarely had their school named because "incompatible with the provision of other children".

There is also a non-section 41 school, but they are full in their enhanced support unit, so cannot meet need and cannot be named.

The maintained school might be great, but we can't view it, or get any answers to our questions. They can't/won't tell us if they can provide the provision set out in section F, or show us the provision they can provide in general to students. We have an offer we know it's suitable, and another offer which we cannot assess if it's suitable, but the LA is naming the cheaper option because the school said they can meet need, but can't evidence it.

The maintained school is currently building out more rooms so there is not even a solid guarantee of availability if the building work is delayed.

It would help you to re-read IPSEA and SOSSEN’s websites then to help you understand the law surrounding naming schools, including section 41 schools. Because an offer is not required, so them saying they will withdraw the offer is nonsense. The bar to prove incompatibility is far, far higher than LAs and many schools admit. I would take what the school tell you with a pinch of salt. Schools don’t always tell the truth and they don’t all understand the law. Read the case law, ask for details and specifics. It isn’t enough to just claim incompatibility. It isn’t enough to rely on blanket class size arguments. Similarly, it is irrelevant that the named school is oversubscribed, and it is things like things that reading the actual law will help with.

The point about the school currently named still stands whether it is a maintained MS or maintained SS. If you want DS to attend, he can. The school is named, they must admit. The LA must ensure the provision detailed, specified and quantified in F is provided. This duty is absolute and non-delegable. Provision can be enforced, including via JR if necessary, but only if it is detailed, specified and quantified. If it is vague and woolly, it is unenforceable and needs to be improved via appeal.

The case law page that's likely most relevant is here - https://www.ipsea.org.uk/ec-v-north-east-lincolnshire-la-hs-2015-ukut-0648-aac-2016-elr-109

2 schools are named. Both have said they can meet need. The question is, how can you define "incompatibile provision" of the LA chosen school won't engage with the parents, and at what point is the bar of "unreasonable public expenditure" met. I imagine this is all on a case by case basis.

I'll keep reading

I don’t think you mean two schools are named. That would be a dual placement with two schools in section I of the EHCP, which doesn’t sound like it is the case for DS. Instead, I think you mean you propose another placement as your preference than that named in the current EHCP. Your preference isn’t (currently) named. It is merely your preferred placement that you propose is named, which may or may not be named at some point in the future.

Case law will help you to understand what is meant by incompatibility and unreasonable public expenditure. All cases turn on their own facts but what is incompatible in one case won’t be in another and a figure that is unreasonable public expenditure in one case may not be in another (just because one is more expensive than another doesn’t automatically make it unreasonable), but there are overarching principles that are used when looking at cases. Although unreasonable public expenditure won’t be considered if only one is appropriate. There is a lot more case law that is relevant than the one you linked to. For example, this case. There are others too. Some are covered by IPSEA’s website. Some not. If you want a simple explanation of some of the cases that aren’t mentioned, have a look at the Noddy guide.

If the LA won’t release information, you can ask SENDIST to order them to. The school is named so you need to go back to the school, inform them they must admit and request a communication. If you want DS to attend, he can. Even if you don’t, these discussions and a visit will help you build your case. If the school refuses to discuss etc., again, approach SENDIST.

Thank you.

You are correct. It's not a dual placement. 2 schools have stated they can meet need. The LA refused to issue a final plan until the maintained school came back with a response (couldn't force the issue because it would take longer than the extra 4 weeks it took them to respond). We supplied a preference based on visits to the school, to see needs could be met.

LA picked the other school because it costs them less. The maintained school has reviewed the EHCP but hasn't done any assessment. Our preferred school has done 2 assessments to confirm they can meet need, but have stated availability will not last long.

Will reach out to SENDIST about trying to get more information from the LA proposed school.

The cost won’t come into it if you can prove, as your posts suggest you think, the maintained school isn’t suitable. Costs will only be looked at if, in SENDIST’s opinion, the placement you propose and the placement the LA proposes can meet needs.

Schools don’t have to undertake assessments before responding to the consults. Most don’t. It doesn’t necessarily make or break a case. Although obviously where they have both parties can use the information in their cases.

but have stated availability will not last long.

This is where understanding the law better will help you. The school is misleading you. As a section 41 school placements don’t work like that. On its own, being full doesn’t meet the threshold for lawfully refusing to name your preference.

The LA’s case should have more information. It should also include things like a statement from the school. Start by reading that and picking apart that. Have you made SARs to the schools and LA?

I have not SAR'ed the schools/LA, But I can start that process to see if it highlights any new information.

Is the Melatonin slow release? We had problems at first as the Melatonin helped DD to get to sleep but then she was waking up again. The Doctors changed her over to slow release and now she does tend to generally stay asleep.