When a child with SN hits their siblings

[thatone]

I was just hoping for some insight into this situation. Dh's brother has two dss, both with SN. The eldest (8) has dx of mild autism, the younger (5) has GDD. We see a lot of them and I am starting to find it very difficult as the elder ds hits, kicks, pushes over his brother A LOT, and seemingly at random. The thing I find difficult is that he is basically allowed to get away with this (there are a few protests of "no, don't do that), with no repercussions and I don't see how he will ever stop unless he is given some boundaries. The family just says that he doesn't mean anything by it and he doesn't understand that it is wrong.

I realise that parents know their own dcs best and often have an instinct for how to manage them that is why I am wondering if it is unfair of me to think that this behaviour is really unacceptable?

BTW I am a regular who wants to remain anonymous.

My two boys are a similar age to your nephews and both have a dx of ASD/AS. I can't obviously say what I would do in your BIL's situation as no two children are the same but hitting and pushing etc isn't tolerated here.

If ds1 didn't understand something was wrong I would probably look for a social story to explain it. I would also be teaching him that there are consequences for hitting. IMO it would be important to not only teach ds1 that hitting people is wrong but also to teach ds2 that he doesn't have to put up with being hit.

A lot will depend though on the individual child and how much they are affected by their autism.

Hi thatone.We have the same situation here.Ds1 has aspergers and his younger brother is NT.Ds1 seems to regard ds2 as his punch bag and will take everything out on him even when he is angry with someone else.This obviously isnt tolerated but withds1 a lot of his feelings towards ds2 are related to jealousy and that ds2 is in "his space".We try to give ds1 his space as much as pos and he has just started going to a saturday club once a month which is great cos it is just for him and it makes him feel special.I dont know if you could try something like that and letting the older boy do something that only he can do.I agree that these children dont understand their behaviour is wrong but they must learn that it is wrong.Does he respond to reward systms at all eg 5 mins without hitting brother will earn him a star towards a go on the playstation or something?
It is a very diff situation but i am pos that with the right managment we will all get there!!!!

Thank you both for replying, it is helpful to know that this kind of behaviour can be managed. coppertop I too am very concerned about the effect of this on ds2 as he rarely fights back and just waithdraws into himself. It is is awkward for me as they are ILs so I don't like to butt in too much. I do make a fuss of ds2 when this happens, and really have the urge to remove ds1 from the situation, but obviously that is not my decision to make.

yummymum1 I have made suggestions before about reward systems etc but they have not found them to be helpful. I think the suggestion to give him some space is a good one, I will look into what activities are available. Is your ds' Saturday club specifically for children with SN?

Yes it is.It is run by a special needs school and they do a sort of outreach group to all children with special needs not just from their school.I have managed to get it funded but even if i couldnt it isnt that expensive considering the huge benefit we all get from it ep ds2 whose self esteem was being seriosly eroded.Does he like any sports that just he could go to?That also could be used as a bargaining tool for his bad behaviour.But of course there also needs to be something for the little one or he is going to see that big brother being bad gets all these good things happening.It is very hard to find something for everyone.We really try to make the day when ds1 is at his club special for ds2 and do the things that he really enjoys.Another thing we do is ds1 has a great buddy so one day a week we have him over to play which isnt great for ds2 but the following week ds1 goes over to the friends house so then ds2 and i have a lovely couple of hrs together where he gets all my attention.It must be very hard for you when they arent your chidren and you have my sympathies.

thanks yummymummy1, I will do some research into different activities. He was signed up for a football course but was too shy to participate so they dropped it. But you are right that as they are not my children there is a limit to what I can do, but I will make some suggestions now. Your insight has been very useful, I just wasn't sure if I was being unfair in thinking that more could be done to help them.

This is a difficult one as all children are so different and these boys both sound vulnerable. Sorting out appropriate 'repercussions' and boundaries is very individual and depends on levels of understanding and motivation.

My DS just turned 6 with GDD is having a phase of constantly hitting his younger siblings. We have to constantly physically intervene as verbal efforts to gain attention are a waste of breath and it is EXHAUSTING. It's so hard seeing DS2 being hurt before we can intervene, DD is learning to push him away and tell him no. I think DS's main reward for hitting is that it produces a loud noise from the sibling hit.Other times it is just something to do with his hands, or sometimes a way of communicating He has no idea that it hurts and becomes very upset when he finally understands that he is being told no, floods of tears only to start again a few minutes later.
So our approach is to consistently stop any hitting in the hope that eventually he will learn that it is wrong- however, i do feel that banging my own head on the wall is probably more productive.We are teaching the siblings to say no and giving them plenty of attention when hit.
I was tempted to use a 'hands to yourself' card but giving him a symbol card would just be a reward right now as he loves symbols.
Do you see your IL's without their children? or are they trying to catch up with you and keep on top of the children at the same time. It's very hard to have adult conversations in this house without having to interupt all the time to intervene so sometimes we're not perhaps as quick to react as we might be if there weren't visitors here.
It's pretty soul destroying though and very hard so I wouldn't be surprised if your IL's are fatigued by it.

thanks joggeroo I know that they are very overwhelmed by their situation and daily life can be a struggle so I do sympathise, but at the same time I find it horrible to have to see the younger ds being hit without anyone defending or protecting him. I'm not sure how they manage things when we are not there, but I do constantly hear them saying that ds1 just won't listen, doesn't understand, nothing can be done. He has ups and downs at school too (MS) and can be aggressive there to children and staff.

But I think it is a good idea to teach younger ds to protest more when he is hit. Unfortunately his speech is quite delayed but I think he can be taught some useful phrases.

The elder ds also hits my own ds1 a fair bit, but when that happens they do physically intervene.

My very tiny DD who is 6 very often hits out at her brother who is a strapping 10 yr old, and me and Dh come to that. It is hard because DD just doesn't understand, often we feel it is out of frustration as she has little speech but we do try and be firm with her and say no

thanks FioFio and delllie, clearly every child is different but I do agree that in my nephew (ds1's) case his hitting is a combination of frustration, lack of understanding and low self-esteem. I think also it has maybe become routine for him. SIL says that when he is watching TV as soon as the ads appear he will go over and hit his brother or just try to sabotage whatever he is doing.

I have been looking through previous threads on the SN board and there have been successes in teaching children on the autistic spectrum/ Aspergers to learn to manage their emotions - anger in particular, so I am hopeful that he will learn to do this, but obviously this depends on what approach his parents take.