The line between ND and poor parenting/behaviour

[NotLactoseFree]

This is something DH and I are struggling with a lot in the context of family member and her child (someone we see regularly at extended family events and she lives close by so there's a certain sibling/cousin type interaction with regular contact).

The child has always seemed to us to be very hyperactive and sensory seeking. But it also just felt like attention seeking as his parents' relationship was truly toxic and often the only time they paid attention to him was when things were really bad. Lots of ineffectual "don't do that" type stuff but largely ignored until things got broken or had reached epic proportions..

But he's 9 now and things are getting worse. Mum is single now (good thing because dad was a complete wanker. Needless to say, he's an absent dad now). She thinks he has ADHD and is seeking support for that - which is good.

But there's still little proactive parenting and we can't work out howm uch of his behaviour is due to potential ND and therefore deserves more understandign and patience, and how much is just him being spoiled. Eg he has a meltdown and his mother will expect the rest of us to accomodate those such as screaming and shouting, stealing our DC's stuff etc because "he didn't mean it" or "he's overwhelmed".

it's a difficlt line. Currently we mostly navigate it by trying to limit somewhat the time we spend with them, and also by pre-empting certain things - eg we have made it clear that he's not allowed to go into or DC's rooms and mess with their stuff and have told his mother that. She's clearly not wild about it, but has accepted this boundary. But our DC are still irritated when he's calling them names or grabbing food or whatever and they're not allowed to do that. And I'm not sure what to tell them.

Disabled children sometimes have difficult home lives and ineffectual parent just like everyone else. Accommodating ND doesn’t include letting your children’s stuff be wrecked.

Parents of ND children sometimes need to pick their battles. If he grabs food rather than asking for it, that might not be top of their list of problems.

You can both set boundaries and be understanding and patient. I would encourage your children to differentiate between behaviour that actively hurts them (physically or emotionally) and stuff they just aren't allowed to do. This child runs around shouting at a family gathering - is it hurting them? It is not a bad thing to learn that different people have different needs: just like someone in a wheelchair might need a ramp, their cousin might need to be told things more than once or find it harder to remember not to shout and snatch (but that doesn't mean he can't be reminded not to do those things).

If he's calling them names, or shouting at them, they can politely ask him not to do that and end the game if he doesn't, without being cruel, retaliating, refusing to play ever again. You can model desired behaviour: "you'd like to play with X? Let's ask. We need to ask before we take." You can step in if you see a situation escalating.

@BusMumsHoliday that's useful advice, thank.you. I think if and when he gets a diagnosis that will help too.

It's still tricky and I know I worry a diagnosis will just be an excuse for poor behaviour but at least we can frame it better.

The thing is that currently stepping in doesn't change things. So 'let's ask dd to play" results i him constantly hounding her, me and his mother until dd says yes. Or asking him not to call them names actually makes him shout all the more. Although ds is particularly good at going into his room and juat closing the door! 😀

@NotLactoseFree if he is ND, it's quite possible that he finds the large family gathering situations so overwhelming that he isn't regulated enough to learn any successful strategies for interacting with other kids. He may literally be unable to deal with not getting what he wants in those situations. So it looks like escalating and bad behaviour, but it's an inability to cope. If you think about a situation where everything has gone wrong in your day, you're feeling ill, people aren't listening and suddenly the shop has sold out of the thing you need - well, it's unreasonable to cry but you might do it anyway. "Normal" situations can feel like that for a ND child. And if he does have ADHD, his ability to regulate his emotions may not be anywhere near his chronological age.

If you were this child's mum, I'd suggest practicing skills like asking other children to play, listening when people say no, staying regulated when an interaction doesn't go the way he desires in a space where he feels safe with one other child, as part of a very structured game he enjoys. But you're not. So all you can really do is support your own children in handling the behaviour calmly and with compassion, while stepping in when necessary.

@BusMumsHoliday hope you dont mind but your advice has been so helpful so i wanted to ask your thoughts.....

We had another fraught series of moments over the weekend. I won't go into the detail but there was an incident where he was behaving very badly as he was going home (offensive, rude, rather than just naughty/OTT) and he refused to stop. Until eventually, hIs mother totally lost it with him (a problem in itself, I understand that) and he was just standing there with this blank look on his face. I assume he completely checked out. DS has ADHD and we've had incidents where he's said/done/thought something ridiculous and gets defensive/angry when he's told off or challenged, but this was completely different. It was almost scary. It felt like he knew exactly why his mother was annoyed but he just didn't care and was just standing there until she stopped ranting.

Dh also had an unpleasant interaction with him where the child appeared to be trying to get a rise out of DH by saying some very unpleasant things while showing him something on a game. DH just told him that he didn't want to hang out with him while he was saying these things and left the room.

The problem is that we have agreed to look after him for 1-2 days over half term as she has no childcare. But we dn't actually know what we're goign to do with him as there have been quite a few incidents like the ones above. He's also started making knowing sexualised comments, which also seem to be about getting a rise out of us. So far, I've managed to just ignore/let go or redirect this stuff, but I'm a bit worried about a whole day?

Do you have any advice? We're all dreading it.

Both the child and his mum sound like they are really struggling. I would caution against trying to read anything into his response to his mum losing it - ND children don't always display emotions in expected ways, and shutting down can be a response to stress. (Not blaming his mum, here - no one has infinite patience.)

Is it an option for one of you to take the child out of the house, or even look after him at his home, while the other one has your DCs? Can you plan an activity you know he enjoys to pull out at difficult moments? Ideally something he can do alone if necessary, that doesn't involve winning and losing.

It's also ok to say that you can't look after him, or can't look after him all day - though I can see you're trying not to let the mum down, and I get the impression she doesn't have a ton of options. Are you close enough that you could advise her about looking into an EHCP or more support from social services?

@BusMumsHoliday sorry for slow response. Thank you.

Divide and conquer is our usual approach, yes, but it's not possible over half term because as it is DH and I are having to try to juggle childcare and work.

Last week, it also turns out he also came into DD's room and pulled his trousers and pants down because he thought it was funny. DD did not find it funny.

Dh has really tried to step up and be a male figure in his life but one of the biggest challenge sis that he just doesn't want to DO anything except play on his ipad or playstation. DH, bless him, has even tried to engage with him on that in the same way he did when DS went through that phase - but this child won't play games like Fifa or even fortnight, he just wants to play GTA and then behaves and shouts appallingly (loudly, but also inappropriatel) and DH feels like spending time with him in that sort of situation is just encouraging and validating the behaviour.

There was another family who had children of similar age and the dad has ADHD and he was super super understanding and helpful and who used to often include this boy (I'm going to call him Jack) when he was taking his children out to the park to play football or ride scooters or whatever, ... but Jack isn't so keen anymore (because playstation) and reading between the lines, I get the sense the dad isn't either. I suspect because of Jack's behaviour. I do remember the mum complaining to me that my DD was a bit too sensitive and should just be up for more "rough and tumble" like this friend and his sister, but last time I saw them, I got the distinct impression the sister was certainly doing everything she could to avoid Jack.

I think I'm finding it especially hard because DS has ADHD and one of my closest friends has a DD with autism and ADHD whose behaviour can also be hugely challenging, so I have two other close children in my life with ND but neither are like him. And intellectually, of course i undersrtand that there's no one size fits all approach, it's just difficult in real life.

I'm going to suggest that DH perhaps takes them swimming. Jack probably will complain but I think that DH can probably get him to go. He'll have to keep an eye on him to ensure that he doesn't push DD or whatever, but perhaps they can even go to the leisure center that has rides and slides and a high diving board - it's pretty safe and contained and he can probably let off a lot of steam. That might be a way to manage this, then when they come back DH can maybe take both kids back to Jack's house and Jack can play on his playstation.