How do you cope when your 3yr old tries to suffocate his 5 year old sister?????

[OrangeMoon]

I am at my wits end with it all, ds has asd as does dd but dd also has cerebral palsy so is not as strong as her brother.
For the 3rd time this year i have caught my ds sat on his sisters head with a pillow over her face, her lips were going blue by the time i yanked ds off her, she is however fine physically but mentally she is distrought, so much so she was pale shakey and sweating most of the morning so i kept her off school.

They both have to share a room as we are in a 2 bed council flat but despite me voicing my concerns about ds to ss, gp, paediatrition etc no-one wants to know, no-one seems to have a solution for how i am supposed to deal with this, i'm not looking for a magic miracle cure, just some stratagies to deal with ds.

Strangely enough ds attends nursery 4 hours a week and is an absolute angel and plays well with other children, yet at home he is just a nightmare to live with.
Currently i am using a method suggested by someone off here e.g washing his hair when he misbehaves or threatening him with it as he hates it but its not working anymore, he just sits there spitting at me and shouting at me.

I am terrified that one morning i will walk into thir bedroom and find dd dead i worry so much that i barely sleep anymore as i am constantly listening out for ds and going in to check on the as ds rarely sleeps

Oh love. I wish I had something to say that could help but I have no experience of ASD so wouldn't want to say the wrong thing.

I think you have to go back to the GP and tell them what you have told us and get it documented. This is too much for one person to cope with alone. Have you told the nursery and asked them for help?

Someone will be along who can help you better soon and I wish you all the best.

oh orangemoon! I remember your previous post! I don't know what to suggest as I only have one sn dc! Do you have a SW? If so contact them urgently to document the 'near miss'!
It really does sound like your dd needs a bedroom (or otherwise protected sleeping area) away from her brother urgently! Can the room be devided? 3 is such an agile fearless age - but too young with the asd to understand what could happen!!!
How is dd now? Does the gp need to check her over?

I have a social worker for dd and i have told her about the other times ds tried to suffocate dd but she just passed it off as something flippant and refuses to accept that a 3 year old would actually succeed in killing his own sister.

Have looked into dividing the room but because it is so small and the radiator and window are in awkward positions so would cost a lot of money and the council wont approve it as the only way to make it safe is to put in a solid dividing wall which would be the only thing to stop ds.

I called nhs direct this morning about dd, the reckoned she was slightly shocked by it all and if am worried about her then to take her to the gp or walk in center, however she is completely fine now, just as long as i manage to keep ds away from her.

If your DS is DXd ASD then the social worker should take your concerns more seriously. I l know it's important not to demonise ASD but it is the case that empathy and understanding are impaired so she should not be flippant about it. Could you contact SW again and insist on re housing - could you get the GP to offer a letter supporting a move?

cyber, we have had letters from gp's paediatritions, physio's and occupational health sent to the council stressing how dangerous it is for dd and ds to share however we are just not a priority apparently.
I have even gone to the extreme of registering with the council in another county where i used to live as they have a better track record for dealing with these situations yet i would prefere to stay here as dd is finally settled in school and i know everone says they are young enough to adapt however i have inch deep scars on my arms from where she would have to be prised off of me by nursery staff and she does not cope at all with change.

As for social workers, i have recently requested a new one however i wont hold my breath whilst waiting for one!

Poor you! I would now threaten to take your story to the press - tell them you have a pal in PR (me) and that she says the Daily Mail are very interested in stories like this given the awful recent tragedy of the mother and 21 year old autistic son. I would email your social worker and say you just don't know where else to turn and think maybe going to the papers will stop yet another tragedy occuring. Every council has a press officer, and if we are lucky, the social worker will send your email direct to that press officer who may then bump you up in the queue to stop you going to the press. It is worth a try, but try and sound like you don't really want to do this but feel you have no choice. It's a threat you can only make once, but when I worked in PR it often meant whoever was making the threat got what they wanted as every council is terrified of bad press, and social workers do not want their names in the Daily Mail!!!

SW may dismiss it as they don't think a 3 year old would knowlingly kill/hurt another child, but the fact it the chance is there even if the intention isn't, IYSWIM.

I've not done this but would writing to the MP help or the new councillor keen to make their mark?
(I can imagine the problem of deviding a lttle room -I presume a bunk bed dd on top would not help as dd is a bit young and ds probably fearless)

What about a video monitor so you can what is going on in their room? I know they are expensive but you may be able to pick up a second hand one or get help with buying one.

The only other thing I can think of is some kind of movement or baby alarm to wake you when either child wakes and gets out of bed so you can sleep confidently. We had a video set up in ds room but that was to protect him from his climbing and head sticking through gaps phase - quite different!

Sorry, have nothing to add, but just wanted to send 'virtual' support.

It might be a rubbish idea but could you move DD (or DS) into your room to sleep - only for the moment. I would definately contact your SW again and stress how your DD was feeling - you even rang NHS direct FGS - that will be documented. If you get no joy from SW then contact your local MP. I did this once when my son's physio threatened to withdraw her servces. Once the MP got involved there was a complete turn around in her behaviour! Amazing!!
Good luck, and keep fighting

Thank you ladies all suggestions are much appreciated.

We used to have a movement sensor pad however ds leaps out of bed before i even manage to shut his bedroom door and half the time when he finally does fall asleep its usually on the floor, add to the fact that he destroys anything in his room, well lets just say the pad is no longer usable, in fact we cant put anything into plug sockets anymore because we have removed them completely.

We have spoken to our local councillor, his basic reply was that he would try to help us but that there were families out there in worse positions who he was also helping so we are not a priority to him either.

ancientmiddleagedmum, i will definately consider threatening to go to the press, just have a couple more appointments for ds coming up about his behaviour, before i do anything, there is also the issue that if it does actually go to press that i would want to remain annonymous for personal reasons.
I will call ds's paed in the morning see if i can get an emergency appointment with him.

We have tried taking it in turns to have one either me or dp sleep in their room whils dd or ds sleeps in ours but thatnks to my dp's snoring it does more harm than good.
We are currently considering buying a sofa bed to put in the living room but there's not much room in there and we wouldn't be able to hear ds.

I was going to suggest moving one of them (prob DD) into your room too. I say DD because if DS then comes into your room and starts doing anything to DD, you will hear !

I really feel for you OrangeMoon. The worry must be awful.

Put DD in with you, get onto your MP (you have grounds, you have been ignored enough !!!) and threaten with the press, as suggested.

My son is 8 and has "anger" issues as part of his Asd or that is how trying to kill his older brother is classed!

I have been given information by his pschyologist to work through with him, and we were referred on to a charity for his sleep problems.

My advice is get a new social worker and ask for a assesment of needs (or a new one if one has been done) and apply for restbite if you have not already. It was the best thing we did and now have 4hrs a week in the form of a carer that we employ.

You might be able to get some kind of break over night ,depending on local services etc

Long term, just dig your heels in and fight!
Go back to everyone that you can think of that is involved and let them know how serious you think this is and I think the press threat is a good one.

I can imagine the worry you must be feeling especially as they are so young at least with my son the older he gets the more you can work with him to teach him ways of coping with the feelings in his head.

Good luck x

Orange Moon - I am hoping you don't actually have to go to the press, but that threatening it will prove effective if you choose your moment right! Good luck with the other appointments!

How are you this morning - did you manage some sleep? And how are the dcs? And yes I agree for your own sake put one dc in with you whilst a better solution is sought. Perhaps a baby monitor if you end up downstairs on a sofa bed and worry you wont hear them.
I'm not good at motivating speeches but I'll try ( Magso squares up shoulders and attempts sargent major voice)!! ( please ignore if not needed!)
'This is not a matter for SW or housing officer to take lightly. DD could have died! ( say it to them several times-tell them how blue and shaky she was - that its not the first time -how you're frightened to sleep because it could happen again). It is not a discipline problem (ds was not naughty he is only 3 and has autism which impares understanding). It is not a request for a bigger house on overcrowding grounds, It is a matter of health and safety -your dcs! Your dcs both have disabilities and need to have separate sleeping, for their own safty.'

Hope you get a workable solution! Take care.

Magso's advice is spot on - another thing to throw at them is that if anything (god forbid) does happen to your DD, then they will have failed in their "duty of care" as you have told them again and again of the danger. They are terrified of legal language like that, ever since the Victoria Climbie case. Agree you should make sure they realise it's not just normal sibling rough and tumble, but something very much out of the ordinary and that you are at the end of your tether coping with TWO kids with special needs, let alone also policing the 3 year old from suffocating his (more helpless) sister!! Bet half of the SWs don't even know what autism means, so you may need to spell out that he has no empathy and does not understand his sister is not just like a toy to be played with!!

Thank you both again.
Last night we put dd into our room and put her back into her own bed before i went to bed at midnight, ds was asleep and i assume stayed asleep as i didn't hear anything until 5.20am when i heard dd screaming, ds hadn't done anything but climb onto her bed so i am assuming she is petrified of him.

Have had ds out at the park for 4 hours today in the hope of tiring him out but he is still bouncing round the living room whilst dd is watching a dvd in her room in peace, hoping that he is more tired after some food and a bath but i doubt it.

Have got an appointment with ds's paed tomorrow so hopefully we might get somewhere so fingers crossed.

Good luck with the doc tomorrow and I hope you get some sleep tonight x