3 yo non verbal child hitting at nursery

[Zara84]

Hi all,

I am at my wits end… my 3yo non verbal child has been hitting kids at nursery all week and the teachers have been reporting this since Monday.

I have been told he is grabbing their faces and necks…no idea where he would have seen that type of behaviour. We suspect he has ASD and are awaiting an appt, ECHP also in progress… really don’t know what to do.

I asked nursery teacher if there were any triggers and she said no it wa random he just walks up to kids and attacks them :(

did anyone go through anything similar and what helped ? How long did this last ? They have asked I speak to GP -
which I will but how will they help ? Will the nursery exclude him from
school :(

Any advice welcome.

The nursery needs to keep a detailed diary/ABC charts to understand triggers. There will be triggers even if they aren’t easy to spot.

What support is the nursery providing? Have they asked the Area SENCO for advice? Have they applied for early years inclusion funding so they can provide closer supervision? If your LA has a specialist teaching service and the service supports nursery pupils, has the LA asked for their advice? What type of nursery is it?

When you say the EHCP is in progress, where are you in the process? What week are you on?

My son was in the exact same position in Nursery and he hit teachers too. His main trigger was jealousy and possessiveness over both toys and attention, you are doing everything you can, keep pushing along the EHCP and hopefully that leads to a specialist placement, my son has developmental delay and learning disabilities and was deferred so he did 2 years of Nursery and before they deferred him again he got a specialist placement. Non verbal children will be frustrated at lack of communication so it's completely normal and his school should be supportive and understanding of this, don't worry Momma, both you and your child will get through this and school will find coping mechanisms, is your child under SALT? Ask for PECS and now and next boards as that helped my son, wishing you both all the best 🫶

Thank you both… literally in tears at the moment messaging from work
toilets :(

he’s the most beautiful boy little loving boy… and it breaks my heart that others only see autism…

with regards to ECHP I am at very early stage where I’ve asked GP for evidence which is only going to be a referral in all honesty, and have a meeting with Senco to help facilitate - I spoke to her before the last half term and she said oh he isn’t disruptive in class so there is no rush… I guess that has changed now.

I asked the teacher if there were any triggers, I asked if it was maybe the Xmas decorations or music (they have been practising for a performance) but she said no- she said it was random attacks.

I am feeling really anxious about the Xmas party on Friday..other parents will be there and what if they point out my son as the hitter…I wish I could wrap him up and never have him be judged

@Heidz87 sorry to ask a personal question but did the specialist school work better for your child

and did they goon to develop speech

My heart breaks for you and I remember those feelings well, sending the biggest hug, the SENCO will be your lifeline and the EHCP will take away a lot of your worries about him being judged or suspended from school, you are doing everything you can and as soon as they have things in place then everyone will see his true nature, it's a long, stressful and worrying journey but keep reaching out Momma, you are not alone!

He is doing amazing at his new school, his speech has developed so much and they have an hour every day where they are taught Makaton which really helps alongside speech. Being with children who have the same difficulties helps him (and me) realise that he's not alone, I was scared he'd never have a friend but he has a few now and hearing all his progress at his last EHCP review had me in absolute tears, it's a journey but I promise better days are coming

Thank you @Heidz87 I am hopeful but it’s so difficult.. thank you for your kind words

It really is, keep strong 💪

So an EHCNA request hasn’t actually been submitted to the LA? You should do that now. You can do it yourself. On their website, IPSEA has a model letter you can use. You don’t need a diagnosis, the GP to refer or the nursery to agree.

There will be a trigger or triggers. The nursery just isn’t spotting them. That is why they need to keep a detailed diary and ABC charts and ask outside agencies for advice.

with The EHCP I asked about this originally in September when he started nursery and was advised by the teacher that he didn’t need to apply yet and to wait for a diagnosis. Before the last half term I asked to speak to the Senco as I noticed he wasn’t taking part in things like baking ( he wasn’t in the weekly pics ) or class activities like colouring however he does this at home and enjoys it

she arranged an appt for me in January

today the teachers asked me to follow up with GP for more evidence and I explained there isn’t much evidence as there is no diagnosis

i haven’t applied yet as I had teh belief that if I do without any real evidence I would’ve rejected and it may be better to wait to get evidence but now I can see I was wrong - I will do the application now

The nursery has misadvised you. Sadly it isn’t uncommon. You don’t need to wait for a diagnosis. EHCPs are based on needs, not diagnosis.

You can make a Subject Access Request to the nursery to collate further evidence. You can also use the ASD referral information. And presumably DS has been referred to SALT even if not yet seen? You can use that information too.

An appointment in January is a poor response time. Try asking for a meeting sooner. As you say, they may be more keen to sort this now that he is hitting, so that may work in your favor at getting a meeting sooner.

In terms of the reasons for hitting, it may not be a specific thing but could be a sensory need or a way of getting interaction from others. How does he respond to touch? Does he show much interest in others?

So previously he wasn’t interested in other kids the teacher said she thinks he is now showing interest but doesn’t know how to interact.. so that’s where he goes to their face and pulls it :(

he is fine with touch and hugs us often, but mostly at his discretion

he has started to show more interest in his brother so I think maybe this is a new thing

It's a phase a lot of pre-verbal children go through. It won't feel like it now, but it may be a really good sign. Taking an interest in peers is an important step in development and may lead to him starting to learn from peers. I would suggest talking to the school about sensory needs. If you have time to work with him at home, look at sensory circuits, intensive interaction and tacpac, and try a few things out. If something works for him, tell the school. If you don't have the time, ask the school to look into these things. Ask how you would go about an OT assessment as the pulling may be a sensory need.

Thank you@Thisismynewusernamedoyoulikeit

I spoke to the teachers this morning at drop off and the teacher I spoke to today said exactly what you said - she said she actually sees it as a positive for my son as initially he would literally move away from kids and she thinks he is interested in them now but doesn’t know how to communicate effectively. The down side obvs is the hitting and other kids getting upset… I did give some fidget toys today and said to try them if he keeps going for kids again today… I will try different strategies over Xmas and I have 3 weeks off so any ideas plssse share

off to pick him up soon I hope no bad feedback today….

Oh that sounds like you've got a really supportive teacher there. Hopefully it'll be a short phase and you'll have some fun on the other side of it, making friends.

You're little one is communicating in the only way he currently knows how. He also doesnt know whats expected of him in these situations and that needs to be taught to him in a way that's sutiable for his needs.There's loads of things you and the nursery can try. Alternative communication methods and visual supports can really help. There will be a trigger, the nursery might not know what it is but there will be one.

Don't panic, this is no reflection on you or him. He's frustrated which is understandable and is communicating that. It will reduce once he is given more positive ways to communicate. My ds has a severe communication delay and the more things put in place, such as alternative communication methods (high tech aac for him) and visual supports the less we have seen these behaviours as he has a more positive way of communicating his needs. This is really common for non verbal children. Salt should be able to support you with this.

Thank you all
for your kind messages… my son used to speak and even ask for yogurt / icecream / fruit.,, he’s suffered a awful regression and I still can’t get my head around it :(

I am hoping we can support him better thank you all