Any positive stories please?

[TILITULA]

Hi,

My 4 year old son has been flagged at nursery for behavioural issues; last week he punched two teachers, so he was internally suspended for one day. In general, he struggles in controlling his anger specially when he cannot get what he wants, or when he is told off by grown-ups. He was on a behavioural plan in the previous nursery and he did improve, but this is a new setting - more structured, caring, and very well organized. His behaviour was already noted in the new nursery, but before it was limited to throwing things out. At home he behaves similarly - once he left me a dark bruise on the leg, as a result of biting. He is not much in himself when having these tantrums, so he then regrets all of what he has done. He doesn't have speech impairments, when he is in his normal self he's a sweet, empathic and happy boy.
Long story short, he has been flagged for ADHD and ASD but we are still waiting a proper assessment.
Since the first warnings from school (I'd say over the last 3 weeks) we started changing the way we interact with him, reading books about controlling aggressive behaviour, spending more time with him, and we can see some improvements; clearly, early days.
I guess what I am looking here is for someone who can share positive stories about similar situations. Anyone?

Has an EHCNA been requested?

What support is the nursery providing? Have they (and you for at home) kept a detailed diary/ABC charts to spot triggers?

Some people find the books The Explosive Child and the Out of Sync Child helpful. Others find PDA strategies &/or a NVR course/resources helpful.

Things can improve with the right support.

A senco expert is assessing the situation at school, and we requested referral to the paediatrician, whilst a family consultant is following things at home with monthly meetings. When my boy is deregulated he is often sent to a sensory room to calm down. I am reading everything available..

If an EHCNA has not been requested, you should make the request yourself. On their website, IPSEA has a model letter you can use.

In the meantime, the nursery can apply for early years inclusion funding if they need more money to support DS.

If DS is in receipt of DLA, they can apply for Disability Access Funding too.

The nursery should be providing more support. They need to look at why DS is becoming dysregulated and work towards trying to prevent escalation rather than just sending DS to the sensory room once he is already dysregulated.

If the nursery’s SENCO needs more support, they can approach the Area SENCO for advice.

Not all areas commission sensory OT on the NHS anymore, but if your area does, it is worth looking at a referral. Even if your ICB doesn’t, an assessment can be part of an EHCNA.

Thanks for the info, I think all the necessary steps have been initiated - my point was rather knowing if there is any chance that this is a temporary beheavior - and to hear from other mums who overcame similar situations - be it acceptance of neurodiverse issues, or successful behavioural therapy, or this being part of a late development in kids, etc.

As I posted, things can improve with the right support.

You would know for certain if an EHCNA had been requested. It doesn’t sound like it has so you should make the request yourself.

We have a son with PDA. He has similar meltdowns in response to demands. We found lowering demands and using declarative language helped a lot. But it won’t ’go away’ in all likelihood this is something that will present a considerable challenge throughout childhood. It’s good to start early with raising their awareness of what they need to manage, but once they reach the fighting stage, they don’t really have control of themselves any more. @TILITULA

Hiya your son sounds a lot like mine when he was 4. He’s now 9.

in our experience if a child has behaviour problems because they are unsettled / unhappy, like if there are problems at home, they can go away. If they are as a result of a SEN issue, they won’t be ‘cured’ but things can get way better.

We tried a lot of rewards and consequences at first, traditional parenting stuff, this was pre diagnosis (since diagnosed ADHD and ASD). And also a lot of talking about feelings. None of that worked.

Parenting for autism and ADHD is a lot more about understanding triggers and helping your child proactively solve for them in advance. It might be certain noises or demands or situations. Keeping a journal of meltdowns can help (we found hunger was a massive trigger 🙃). Read ‘the explosive child’ and ‘how to raise a happy autistic child’. I don’t want to pre-empt a diagnosis but the second one is genuinely helpful and could be even if your child doesn’t actually turn out to have SEN. The challenge with traditional approaches is if your kid is prone to meltdowns, in the moment they don’t know what they’re doing so can find it hard - especially when they are young - to engage in thinking stuff like ‘is this a big feeling, am i in the red zone’ etc. It’s far better to have a sense of ‘my kid finds this type of situation hard, we are likely to have a meltdown, let’s make a plan’.

The last few years meltdowns have reduced massively and he’s now old enough to be able to engage in breathing techniques etc when he’s on the edge.

We’re now at a stage where I feel like if the meltdowns were the price we had to pay to have this unique, cool, quirky, creative kid then it was a price worth paying but there were some very hard years with exclusions and things in the middle.

@TILITULA What you've written, describes my little boy. I just wanted to let you know we are experiencing exactly the same thing with our 5yr old.

We're currently going through a private assessment at the minute to see if there are any SEN concerns.

@BeLoftyEagle your post has given me hope! Thank you :)

Glad to be of help :-)

My advice would also be not to pay too much attention to what your mates are doing with their kids. I found that approaches my mates used with their neurotypical kids which worked great (like confiscating toys as a consequence, explaining to them why biting is hurty and bad) had zero impact and things they could get away with (taking kids to the pub and they’d just do colouring, the odd late night, noisy playdates, any clubs) we just couldn’t. Ever.

When I let go of it and started parenting the kid I had which needed a different approach to how i was raised and was very different to how i thought i’d parent, life became so much easier and his behaviour got wayyyyy better.

Our problem is school - they give the impression he's naughty and don't get it - they seem to think he requires traditional consequences! I've explained he sometimes can't help it and has said himself he doesn't like feeling angry or aggressive but their answer is, there is no excuse for it.

@BeLoftyEagle thank you for this. We are finding that positive parenting is actually working, but I am also thinking "like if" he is in the spectrum. No diagnosis yet, but the beheavior at home has definitely improved. So thanks also for the book recommendations, I read the explosive child but will read the other too.

@DuggeeH we will probably take the same route; may I ask exactly what are you doing? Therapist? Private paediatric consultant? We got a 52-weeks waiting time for our referral...

Oooh they really need help with that. The consequences approach will make things worse for most neurodiverse kids. Is the senco involved? The senco at least should be better informed and able to educate the team.

i used to take the ‘no excuses’ approach myself but ultimately it doesn’t help so i dropped it. Now i think the ‘no excuses’ mindset is like blaming a dyslexic kid for not being able to spell or a blind kid for not being able to see. Many autistic / adhd kids can no more behave like their peers than a child in a wheelchair can walk by trying harder.

@TILITULA we're going through a private consultancy - paediatrician and Speech Language therapist. It is costly but it beats the 3yr wait list in our area! Hopefully, we can get an outcome mid Feb. Also, you can apply for an EHCP yourself to ensure your little one receives the help he deserves when he starts mainstream school.

@BeLoftyEagle Absolutely, I understand your thinking! I think because he gets aggressive and they’ve most probably not dealt with the types of behaviour he sometimes shows, they don’t get it and most probably think it comes from home! It’s more their way and it feels as though they know best.

We’ve tried the Senco but it’s almost they don’t want to talk and so most of it’s done through the class teacher.

I’m so sorry, that sounds very hard.

my son had the same at his first primary. They definitely contacted social services thinking he was getting it from home. It puts so much pressure on parents to always be educating the schools on how kids present, and also from being on the backfoot trying to counter suspicions and insinuations which generally aren’t spoken aloud but you know its what they’re thinking.

I confronted his year 1 teacher in the end and said if you think we’re telling him at home it’s ok to hit and bite or we’re all screaming and attacking each other, you are very very mistaken!

That must have been so hard for you all to have SS be in contact. Definitely puts the pressure on, especially when schools assume - I get they have to but they don’t ask questions either about strategies that are used at home.

Did you move primaries because of the SS referral?

Hi there, since I started this post I decided to keep documenting my journey and share it with everyone... Just in case, one day, another mum in my similar situation may find comfort or help or something to relate to..

As said, we played by the book, firstly attending courses and reading about parental strategies to improve my child's behaviour. It worked, certainly at home and, for a good 7 weeks, at school. Family concerns were dropped by the family consultant already after Christmas, and because of the improvement, we didn't go for private therapy.

But, in the last 14 days, reports of bad behaviour have started coming back again: not sharing, snatching, spitting, kicking and throwing objects everywhere. Usually, triggers are anything between being tired from the day, being told off, wanting a toy someone else has (generally happening at lunch time or right before home time), or fighting game with friends going wrong. I am not sure if this is because school started lowering their guard, given the previous good attitude.
I did something very wrong yesterday, like crying in front of him, and he cried back; I know he doesn't like being like this, he knows it's wrong...but the red mist takes him somewhere he cannot control.
Yesterday the school principal spoke to me, saying that, because of the pattern they could see, he will be temporary removed from the playground after lunch time, to attend a safer area with a few children with similar difficulties and a higher ratio staff-kids. This sounds to me as a defeat, and exclusion. I just hope it's temporary...

@DuggeeH how is it going with your private help? Are things better? Anything to share with me at all?