Potty training help

[Cookie0508]

My DS4 almost 5 is not yet potty trained. He is ASD with PDA, speech and language delayed. We have started trying to get him into it, we introduced a star chart and he asks for a star, sits on his potty and nothing happens. I think he understands that he will get a star (4 stars gets a treat) if he can do a wee or a poo but I think he gets so anxious about doing it if you push too much he will regress and absolutely refuse to try. We tried nappy free for a week and he held in his poos, his wees he only told us when he had done one in his pants. I'm mot sure how best to approach it lf he's so anxious about doing the thing. He will happily sit on his potty for a while and produce nothing. Any advice anyone can offer?

Hi @Cookie0508

My DS is very similar to yours, he is starting school in September and we had a meeting with their SENCO, they suggested doing toilet time every hour and a half, where we pop him on the loo and praise him even if he hasn’t done anything, and wash his hands etc.

Its only been a couple of weeks and we’re already noticing his bladder control is improving and he has days where he is completely dry.

Have you tried the ERIC website? They have some great tips.

Hey @Curlygirli thanks for this, glad to hear it's going well so far for you. We have a meeting with our SENCO soon so will see what they say.

Thanks yes I've seen the ERIC website and it's great, we've tried talking to him about it and showing him things but he wants to avoid any talk about it. We've got him liking sitting on his potty but we just can't get to the next step.

It's really tricky with the demand avoidance and the lack of speech, he can't tell us (or doesn't want to) when he needs to go and it's not always obvious. Even rewards, he kinda forgets about (even though the chart is on the wall) so he's not motivated enough to try.

My littlest doesn't have a PDA diagnosis but is definitely demand avoidant. We found the more we bothered him about the toilet, the less likely he was to use it. When we started leaving him alone, he started to take himself off for a wee (in our case on the potty rather than the toilet). Rewards didn't work and he wouldn't wee on command if he didn't feel he needed to go (has only just started doing this 6 months on).

When we put him in pants we had 10 full days of accidents before we got the first wee in the potty. During that time we did see big improvements in how long he was able to go between wees though, so we knew the control was there.

I feel your pain, toilet training a child is hard, toilet training a child with additional needs is SO hard. DD3 (nearly 4) is now toilet trained at 3.5, I can’t believe it. She is autistic (without an official diagnosis yet but we’re on waitlist) and has a speech & language delay too, I’m not sure if she’s demand avoidant, I guess she definitely has been in the past with potty training! We tried when she was about 2.10 and it was a disaster - complete refusal to sit on potty and accidents everywhere, we gave up as she was just getting so upset!

We decided to try again at 3.5 as I knew deep down she understood what she was meant to do, she just didn’t want to/didn’t want to have to deal with change/was probably a bit scared/anxious about it all. Also she had started sitting on toilet before bath every night which was a massive breakthrough! Second time around we were more prepared - I wrote out short scripts and taped them up all over the house so DH would remember to use them, I think this is key when dealing with a language delayed child, you must keep language simple & consistent (“you peed in your pants/on the floor, pee goes in the toilet”, “toilet time!”, “you’re peeing, pee goes in the toilet”, etc). Similarly, nursery/grandparents/whoever else your child interacts with should be told about the scripts/language you are using at home and they need to follow suit. DD isn’t motivated by rewards, she would’ve ripped up a star chart, she can be motivated by food, so I decided she would get a choc button if she got a poo in toilet. We also got her a special book about one of her favourite shows and she ONLY got to look at this when she was sat on the toilet.
The biggest thing was just taking her nappies away and letting her have accidents then being consistent with our language (“you’ve peed on the floor, pee goes in the toilet”). It took about 4 weeks but then it started to click that actually, it feels nicer doing a pee/poo in the toilet than in my pants. We also tried to be as chill & calm about it as possible and just matter of factly say our scripts every single day. DD also isn’t a fan of lots of praise & fanfare so when she did do a pee in the toilet, it was just “you did a pee in the toilet, brilliant.” And moved on, this definitely helped DD feel it was less of a big deal/something to be anxious about.
It was really hard, I thought she wasn’t going to do it and did think about putting her back in nappies but I’m so glad we didn’t! 6 weeks later and she now takes herself to toilet, still needs help with wiping and pulling pants/trousers up properly but she’s doing amazing. If you’d told me 6 months ago that we’d be here I wouldn’t have believed you.

What does your gut say - do you think your son can do it? If not, maybe try again in 3-6 months?

@SatinHeart @Lordfingal (love the name) thanks so much for your replies. I'm glad there are others who understand! Glad you've had such success.

I think he understands what he should do, i'm not sure he fully understands knowing in advance when he needs to go. When we tried just pants before he'd only tell us after it happened. I think we need to try again next holidays, it's tricky when he has preschool as well because he doesn't like the toilets there, but we should try and incorporate something simple with the routines we have at home.

I like the idea of the signs and consistent language, he can read but perhaps we can adapt that idea.

If possible I’d definitely wait until holidays and you can have a good stretch of days focusing on it, more than the usual 3 days so many courses bang on about!
We initially did a week at home with DD which really helped, it was torture but just had to be done.
We also started off first couple of days with no pants or trousers and I just watched her like a hawk. So I would give her a big drink of water then I just watched her (I didn’t leave her side, it was torture) and when she started peeing I would quickly lift her onto potty or toilet whichever was closest. DD wouldn’t say when she needed to go, she rarely does now even though she’s trained, just takes herself now!
But I think to begin with, you can’t expect them to tell you/show you when they need to go, so you need to just watch them like a hawk, you’ll start to notice little signs. Then if your DS responds to rewards, you give him a reward if you’ve managed to get even a tiny bit of his pee in potty/toilet initially.
I had pee all over my carpets initially, as DD would just keep peeing as I was lifting her to potty/toilet. It was so hard but I’m glad we kept going.

We also got a toilet seat for the toilet to help her feel nice & secure on toilet then I bought the exact same one for her to use on the toilets at nursery and she also took her special toilet book to nursery - it was really important to make the nursery experience as similar to the at home experience. Our nursery was very supportive though, hope yours is too.
The fact he can tell you that’s he done a pee in his pants is great! DD would never have done that.

Hope you don’t mind me joining but in a similar situation with my 3.5 year old and struggling to find any real life support or anyone who gets it! We think he’s demand avoidant but no diagnosis yet as we keep being told he’s young but for me the biggest clue is the way he’s been around trying to toilet train. Have had very stressful cycles of withholding and anxiety which have taken over our life and just trying to get back to normal now before we even think about training again so he’ll be in nappies for a while longer and I suspect it will be a long road and he’ll react badly to any pressure from us at all. Agree with all the usual strategies not working! Even rewards have to be used carefully if at all. He can tell us his needs and when he is going/has gone which is good but seems to be confused around knowing when he needs to go. It’s hard!