Would you move schools?

[DivGirl]

DS has recently turned 6 and is in mainstream school, Y1. On SEN list since first term of reception, receives additional funding for interventions but does not have an EHCP. No diagnosis either, but on the waiting list for autism assessment. I receive middle rate care/lower rate mobility for him.

He loves school, I have had concerns for some time that the environment is too chaotic for him. It’s a big two form entry in a building that was originally set up to be a junior school. They can’t get him to engage with work, although miraculously he’s not behind academically. They see behaviours that we don’t see at home or anywhere else (aggression). On the first day back after Easter I was told he’s one strike away from being ‘internally excluded’. He is six! And this was the first time this has been mentioned at all.

Now there is another school locally which is much smaller, maybe 100 pupils in total over R-Y6. They have space in his year group and I’m going to visit tomorrow.

Would you consider moving in these circumstances? I want him to be happy, and I know he’s capable of achieving academically. I’m not sure we’re going to achieve that in his current school, but he does love going. Trying to weigh up the potential good against the potential bad is difficult.

Have you spoken to the SENCO at the smaller school? Sometimes small schools have benefits e.g. being smaller, but also down sides e.g. less resources and sometimes less space to withdraw to. Some DC find composite classes hard too.

I would request an EHCNA. On their website IPSEA has a model letter you can use.

We were in a very similar situation with our son, at the same age, also with no diagnosis. We did move to another mainstream school, and it just confirmed to us that mainstream wasn’t appropriate for his needs. We applied for an EHCNA ourselves, our son was issued an EHCP and is now in a specialist setting. Moving mainstream schools was helpful because it proved it wasn’t right, and the LA had little other option but to name a specialist school as we’d tried everything else and it hadn’t worked.

Maybe a combination of specialist school and mainstream might work better.

Been here, it's not fun is it! My boy who's was 5 at the time got permanently excluded due to him being a danger to himself and others. This was after months and months of him being expelled, countless meetings and assessments. All said it was nothing. After the permant exclusion, he got accepted in to a school that caters to special needs and he is thriving with less people and more support. Don't give up! It's a long grueling battle (still don't have a diagnosis) it's been three years now. Keep pushing the teachers, ask them what thet intend to do to support your child going forward. Wether that's with them or else where they need that support. I wish you all the luck! Xx

I'd probably move him at that age if you like the other school when you visit. I kept ds at pre school until he started reception as the school based nursery was too noisy and chaotic for him. Most of the primary schools near me are either one or one and a half form entry so generally small. He did go to a one and a half form entry one but it felt much calmer than the other ones and he loved it there. He did have one to one and an IEP. Similarly we moved him to a private boys school for secondary as we didn't think he'd cope with our large state secondary. He's now 20 now.

I'm interested to know what are the interventions that are being funded. Surely a child that is clearly struggling with aggressive behaviour needs support in his interactions with other children?

I'm not concerned about the size of the school per se, because they should be teaching in small groups within a class anyway. If he is not accessing the learning, it sounds as though this too needs extra support.

Is it possible that the school management have a policy of not changing their procedures unless or until there is an official diagnosis. I have encountered this myself - autistic children forced to be like other children (even though the problems are very clear) until the magic piece of paper arrives and with it a comple u-turn.

I would not change schools unless you feel that they are failing your child and you have no confidence in things being different. I would speak to your local education authority (maybe Educational Psychologist) and find out what they think the school should be doing to support your son (and how the are spending the additional funding) and whether the other school might be a better placement.

Good luck! School years can be a minefield so you need to have as many supporters outside school as you can find. If necessary, stiffen your resolve and don't allow yourself to be fobbed off. It sounds daunting but I have every confidence that you can do this, emerging stronger and a fierce advocate for your child.

Dual placement with a SS is highly unlikely without an EHCP.

Any school not providing support until there is a diagnosis is acting unlawfully. It is disability discrimination. The school must make their best endeavours to meet a pupil’s SEN, diagnosis or not, and they must make reasonable adjustments.

Unfortunately, there’s nothing in law specifying how the school must spend the high needs top up funding. The only way to guarantee specific provision is via an EHCP. And parents shouldn’t trust what the LA tells them. They will tell them what they want you to know and their version of the law.

Hello, if your little one likes school then moving him many not be the answer. I know different local authorities have different ways of doing things (so this advice might not be exact), but I would recommend the following:
Request your child has a One Plan, this focuses on strengths and difficulties and agrees support. Normally you need 3cycles of this to request an EHCP
Find out if there are any parent support groups/courses/coffee mornings for children with additional needs. It is about learning from your peers as to what has worked for them.
Ask if your son’s school has access to a Mental Health Support Team.
Contact your local School Nurse team for support.
Find out if your local authority have an Educational Psychology helpline.
Schools are rushed off their feet with children with additional needs so I would be proactive and seek meetings and support yourself to move things along.
I would also say in my experience bigger schools tend to have better SEN departments than smaller ones. Not always the case of course.
Good luck

Normally you need 3cycles of this to request an EHCP

No you don’t. This is a myth some LAs like to perpetuate. Parents can request an EHCNA at any point. The only lawful test for an EHCNA is a) has or may have SEN, and b) may need SEN provision to be made via an EHCP.

I'd be a little wary of a small school, my son is similar (we do have a diagnosis now), he is on the sen register but at a small school. He has never met the senco, they only have funding for a senco 1 day a fortnight and last autumn she went off sick, then resigned. They can't cover her work as they don't have any staff spare (because they're so small). There is no 121 support because there arent enough TAs, and if anyone is off sick its supply teachers. His class teacher is lovely, but isnt an expert in his neaurodiversity and so just does what she thinks is best (sometimes its great, somestimes not so much) If the other school offers lots of sen support, and has a robust package of help available - great. Definitely quiz them on how much there is though, I'm shocked at the lack of support we get despite having a diagnosis and a comprehensive report explaining what measures school should put in place. They also can't afford some of the measures that require technology etc (although that might be state education/govt issue rather than a school size issue). Equally, everyone knows my son, knows what his challenges are, knows us, ensures he is OK socially, is really kind and friendly etc.
I've also wondered about moving my son, but he's happy and has friends (which is no easy feat for him). How easy is it for your son to manage change, meet new people, make friends? Does he have good friends or conversely is anyone unkind to him now? I'd weigh these things up too, as moving school is a massive social upheaval. I'd suggest a sit down with your existing school and senxo, talk about what measures are in place, are they working, what else can they do. Then go meet with teacher/senco at the proposed smaller school and see how the ideas match up....

"On the first day back after Easter I was told he’s one strike away from being ‘internally excluded’. He is six! And this was the first time this has been mentioned at all." Yep GET HIM OUT OF THERE ASAP on this alone. A school that gets any child, especially one this young, one strike away from being internally excluded without the parents knowing there is a big problem, is not one anyone should want their child at. Sounds like the school are one strike away from falling in their duty of care!

@Ireallywantadoughnut36 have you requested an EHCNA?

My daughter is also 6 and awaiting an autism assessment. She is registered Sen at school and is currently been assessed for an EHCP. I moved her school halfway through reception after I went in to school for a parent activity one day and found my child cowering in the corner with her hands over her ears sobbing. 5 staff members completely ignoring her. When I changed school it was really hard for the first couple of weeks. My daughter cried every day for her old school and her routine. After that she settled down and has now been there for a year and is soo much better. Do what you think is best for your child. You know him better than anyone.

This sounds familiar for both DS and the school size here. DS (7) now has a diagnosis of ADHD and ASD and has a 1:1 TA. His EHCP has just been granted and we get the same DLA allowances as you. We’ve had internal and external exclusions this year as far as I can tell it is where they have not spotted when he was struggling to cope with the classroom environment soon enough and he became overwhelmed, frustrated and lashed out. I wasn’t overly happy with the school when this happened as they weren’t following his support plan properly. Once they started listening to us a bit more it got better.

Medication for his ADHD (after an adjustment to dosage) and a different TA have made the world of difference to him. He’s a bright boy and LA deemed at the moment he doesn’t need a specialist placement and can cope in mainstream with TA support. His attainment tanked this year, he went from above average in reading and
maths to below average, he was often out of the classroom as he couldn’t cope with the ‘teacher shouting’ in his words but we seem to have made progress and he’s on the room most of the time now and we are now coming back up in attainment again.

I would move without a doubt. A small primary school was the best thing that happened to me educationally until college. I wouldn’t hesitate a moment, honestly.

What did you decide in the end, OP?

Probably too late, but I'm my experience small schools = fewer resources, finances and manpower. You also have fewer children to make friends with and this can make it hard to fit in at times.
Your current school needs to be making reasonable adaptations in order for your child to feel more secure at school. Whay are they doing to reduce his cognitive load? How are they supporting him to regulated?

Absolutely! If you get good vibes from the smaller school and any questions you ask are well answered.
Our son isn't classified as special needs but does need additional support. He is in a school about the same size as the one you are looking at. My son's school is (generally) brilliant with getting issues sorted!

I wouldn't assume that a smaller school will automatically be a calmer environment - our SEN son is at a 1 class per year school and really struggling due to being in a year group that happens to have a high proportion of SEN and/or badly behaved children. His needs (high anxiety and sensory issues around sound) can't be met because of the needs of other children in his class (lots of meltdowns, noise and drama) and there's no option for him to be moved to another class, or be grouped with other more academically inclined children for certain subjects as he was in his previous school.
It sounds like there may be other issues with the current school so a change may well be the right thing, just warning that smaller does not automatically equal quieter.