Ehc plan advise please has it made a difference for your child

[samjade]

Hi all would really appreciate some advice.
my son has been struggling more than ever since starting primary school. He is diagnosed with autism and has just been accepted for an Ehcp after a 11 month wait for decision.
having just read the plan I’m not feeling very hopeful
I thought he would get a specialist teacher to help him 1 to 1 but a lot of the stuff on the plan is relied upon the normal teachers and includes what they are already doing.
I am certain my son would be very different if he had a specialist teacher as he recently spent time learning with an Elsa trained teacher and came back from school a different child.
my son has stopped masking his difficulty’s and is now being perceived as strange by his peers because he is acting out his struggles and annoying others in class. He has been attacked by a group of 7 children who held him down and stamped on his chest and there was no reason from the boys for doing it.
its very sad because without the school struggles that he can’t cope with he is a lovely fun boy to be with and no one is getting to know this.
thanks for reading and please reply if you an offer advice

I‘m sorry your son was hurt, I hope that the school dealt with it appropriately.

The outcomes and provisions that go into an EHCP are generally based on what is recommended in the professional reports commissioned by the needs assessment, or other recent reports by SALTs for instance. It may also include things agreed at a planning meeting between parents, school and LA. Did the reports accurately reflect what your ds needed? Does the EHCP reflect those reports?

I’m not an expert but EHCPs don’t typically provide funds for a 1:1 specialist teacher, it’s usually a TA. A specialist teacher would need to be named specifically in sections E&F, but again this would need to be recommended in the assessment reports. It would obviously be much more expensive.

Is it the draft you have now? You can make comments on it. When the EHCP is finalised, if it isn’t adequate you can appeal. Getting independent assessments if necessary.

What are the reports like? As Open posted, provision in EHCPs is taken from the evidence. If the evidence is lacking, the EHCP will be too. Do the reports detail, specify and quantify 1:1?

Section F is the special educational provision. Section E is the outcomes.

thank you for your replies I was locked out of my account!
I need to read it again I can’t process all the information. The only thing I can see about 1.1 says to reduce 1.1 over time.
he already has an assistant most of the time who is not trained and he really doesn’t do well with. Another specially trained teacher he thrives with but rarely sees him. There is a lot of demands on there but it sounds like they expect all teachers to fulfil it and that seems unfair or impossible. As he has been getting worse.
ive spoken to the case officer today and he said do I agree can I put it in writing and give permission for him to consult with my sons school. Should I speak to the school before agreeing we are currently on half term? Is it something I should be worried about agreeing to without advice.
the officer said he can’t specify which teacher Leo needs and I thought that was strange.
Worrying now what if the school don’t agree to the plan will he have to apply to a specialist school.
I’m going to read threw the draft and reports again. He has reports on there from 2 EP , salt and some other things it’s a lot to take in.

Also in the personal budget it says 0.00 to everything. Is that for things outside of school surely it’s not 0 to the school for providing help? I read they will receive £6000 a year to help support a child with ehcp

He said the assessment reports didn’t ask for a specialist teacher in trying to login to egress to check it all again and I’m locked out of that now. The email is not coming threw and the other option to verify is an old phone number. Nightmare lol

You need to go through the reports and pay particular attention to the section that outlines his special educational needs and then E&F which outline the outcomes (or targets) and the provisions to meet those targets. This is what the school should be putting in place.

It’s common for the document not to specify 1:1 as the LA will say school should decide how to spend the funds (it certainly won’t name an individual). I don’t think this is lawful but you might need to appeal to get it included. It’s also common for the draft not to have funding on it, that will be included on the final document. Whatever value is on there, school have to fund the first £6k from their existing SEN budget.

As I said previously, it’s extremely unlikely he will have a specialist teacher as a 1:1. It will be a regular TA who should have had some training in working with autistic children. His teacher will be the regular class teacher.

You can request the LA does not use Egress. They will tell you they have to, they don’t.

Do you mean specialist teacher or do you mean a 1:1 TA/LSA/HLTA?

Provision in EHCPs is taken from the evidence, so if the reports don’t include provision from a specialist teacher, it won’t be in the EHCP either.

The EHCP sounds inadequate. All the provision required needs to be detailed, specified and quantified in F. No woolly or vague wording such as “access to”, “would benefit from”, “regular”, “up to”, “or equivalent”, “opportunities for”, “as appropriate”, “would be useful/helpful”, “such as”, “e.g.”, “etc.”, “as required”, “as advised”, “key adult(s)”, “small group”.

If 1:1 is required, it needs to be explicit. Who, what, when, where… The EHCP should not state a specific teacher. Instead, it should state the training/qualifications/experience required. It can state the need for the 1:1 to be a consistent person or 2 &/or priority must be given to those DC has an existing relationship with. LAs who tell you they don’t state 1:1 anymore or it is for the school to decide what support to give are, as Open posted, acting unlawfully.

If the current school is your preferred school, then yes state that is your preferred school and you wish for the LA to consult them. You don’t need to speak to the school first.

Worrying now what if the school don’t agree to the plan will he have to apply to a specialist school.

This isn’t how it works. Unless the school is wholly independent, the LA must name your preferred school unless the LA can prove:
-The setting is unsuitable for the age, ability, aptitude or special educational needs (“SEN”) of the child or young person; or
-The attendance of the child or young person would be incompatible with the provision of efficient education for others; or
-The attendance of the child or young person would be incompatible with the efficient use of resources.
Unless the LA can prove this, they can and must name your preferred placement even if the school objects. There are limited circumstances a special school can be named against your will. Your posts don’t indicate that applies to you.

Despite what many LAs believe, the outcomes in E are not targets. Outcomes are the result of provision, whereas targets are an aim.

Don’t focus on funding. Focus on getting the support detailed, specified and quantified in F, it must be provided. The funding schools receive for EHCPs depends on the contents of the plan. They can be fully funded, although LAs won’t do so unless forced. £6k is often said to be the notional SEN budget amount, but it is rarely actually £6k. A personal budget doesn’t include the funding the school receives for support.

It is worth reading ISPEA and SOSSEN’s websites to get a better understanding of EHCPs.

thank you for your replies just trying to take it all in and still have no access to egress will have to get in touch with them. I did download the draft to my phone so found that but not all the reports and attachments.
it sounds quite detailed but continually says to be supported by staff.
my concern is the teaching assistant is not trained to be able to motivate my son. She says things such as you need to do better and you need to try harder. My son has low self esteem he is trying his best but can’t concentrate, he is devastated by her comments and it makes him feel hopeless. He has really gone downhill since he joined this school in year 3. I’m not blaming the school the work demands are probably more and affected him or it is possible the TA really isn’t right for him and making it worse. He was passive before at school but is now climbing on tables hiding under jackets and reporting to me he hasn’t been able to do his work.
the report does detail that he needs to be spoken to carefully and praised for the smallest things. Hopefully everyone involved at school can take this on board and has time to do this.

Have you spoken to the SENCO about the TA? The EHCP can include the training/experience/qualifications of the TA, but it will only do so if you have evidence stating that. “supported by staff” is too vague. What staff? What support? When? How long for?

Thank you again for reply
I did email the senco and asked her to call after (redacted by mnhq) has an amazing day with the other teacher and she said to come in and talk to her.
yes I feel it is very vague and there is no mention of his space he is allowed to go to when feeling overwhelmed but does that matter because the school already do that?
also when I had the meeting and the EP was there. The senco tried to say he wants to stay at home because he likes being with me and I said yes he is overwhelmed by school that he wants to stay home. The EP ageeed and said he needs to be allowed outside throughout the day. The school said the ehcp wanted a new report from EP because the other one was old but there isn’t one on the application and i know the EP was involved. I need to talk to the school next week as we’re on half term.
also he has got worse in class since being attacked I think. It still says he is very passive but as I mentioned he recently has been climbing on tables and saying silly phrases in class.
it also says he can communicate with trusted teachers but there has been incidents at school and I know he hasn’t been able to communicate his side of things he will just say I don’t know and I think they should be going back and talking to him again when he is feeling less stressed about the incident and ask again before writing incident reports
sorry I don’t know if I’m being silly and the school probably have his best interests at heart but I know there is limited funding so it is worrying me

Sorry do you know how I add notes to the draft. I can only see specified 1.1 time is twice a week for half an hour! He has an assistant with him all day already but they haven’t mentioned that at all. But like I said before the school already do all of that so does it matter too much what the ehcp says.

Don’t rely on the school to advise you on the EHCP.

does that matter because the school already do that?

Yes, it matters! Any special educational provision reasonably required must be detailed, specified and quantified in F. If it is not in F the school does not have to provide it and it is not enforceable. Is 1:1 in the reports?

If the EHCP is vague and woolly, you must request it is tightened up and appeal when you have the right of appeal. There’s lots of different ways parents comment on the draft, e.g. some make notes on a separate document, some edit a word document with either footnotes, comment boxes or using the working document key, some print it out and make handwritten notes. It depends on what works for you.

When was the EP assessment? If the old report was not sufficient, new information should have been sought during the EHCNA. You need to complain about this.

Ok thank you I will make sure I try to have this added to the draft or appeal it if they won’t.
Information was sought it says there is a report from EP 23rd November but he hasn’t seen it why would he ask for it and then when it’s done not have seen it doesn’t make sense at all. I guess I need ask why.
The other EP report was December 2021.
I have emailed the man who sent the ehcp draft but need to add the notes. I’m just trying to take it all in still because I’m so anxious with the way things have been going for him and it’s difficult to motivate him everyday when he hates going.
the ehcp called me 2 days after the draft was written to say do I agree and I hadn’t processed it yet. I had messaged a few days previous to the draft threatening legal action as it’s been 10 months waiting to hear from them and I read it’s Illegal and should take 4 months.
thank you so much for the advice I always doubt myself and trust other people but after talking to you I’m going to fight for this to be amended.

Information was sought it says there is a report from EP 23rd November but he hasn’t seen it why would he ask for it and then when it’s done not have seen it doesn’t make sense at all.

Who is ‘he’ who hasn’t seen it? Has the EP completed their report (have you seen it?) or has the EP not completed it yet?

If the LA is going to issue, they should have finalised within 20 weeks. In order to do that, they should have issued a draft within 14 weeks.

Hi
the ehcp asked for a new EP report (after already waiting 10 months!)
because the other one was too old
the man I am speaking to about the ehcp said he hasn’t seen the new one but
I saw it yesterday it was a document used for ehcp it is very different to his EP report from December 21.
when I met the EP recently she said Leo would need to be taken outside for breaks but it doesn’t say that in her report!?
The one from December was so supportive and the EP said he needs to work with Elsa and be taken out for breaks! I can’t believe it I know now even more I am right about him needing that. Hes had the Elsa teacher twice at his new school and said he really liked him he got his work done and he was. A really good teacher he clearly needs this specialist teacher.

OP as I understand it, ELSA is an intervention not a permanent situation. So your ds may have sessions with an ELSA trained TA for a defined period of time but they won’t be with him all day every day.

The idea of the EHCP is to include all activities and approaches that ds needs to be successful, as outlined in the professional reports. Things that the school are already doing need to be included because otherwise if there’s a change of teacher or head teacher, or he needs to change schools, there’s no guarantee he’d continue to receive these adjustments.

Ok thank you but I should ask for time outside to be included as the EP said when I met her but not in her report?
its so annoying that he actually learnt with the Elsa teacher and really doesn’t do well with his usual teaching assistant do you think that’s between me and school and doesn’t need to be included in the ehcp at all?

Yes, I would push for outside time/movement breaks to be included. With individual members of staff it’s more tricky. Training can, and often should, be specified but any problem with individuals is for you to resolve with school.

the man I am speaking to about the ehcp said he hasn’t seen the new one but I saw it yesterday it was a document used for ehcp

If the new EP report has been used for the EHCP it will be listed in section K of the EHCP and even if the specific man you spoke to (? Caseworker) hasn’t read it the LA has.

when I met the EP recently she said Leo would need to be taken outside for breaks but it doesn’t say that in her report!?

You need to go back to the EP and request they amend their report. Provision in EHCPs is taken from the evidence, so if you don’t have evidence it is required it won’t be in the EHCP.

he clearly needs this specialist teacher.

It is important you use the correct terminology when discussing the provision in the EHCP. Do you mean a specialist teacher or do you mean a TA/LSA/HLTA?

ELSA provision can be ongoing but it isn’t delivered full time whilst at school.

thanks very much to both of you
I will look for a way to contact the EP if not go back to school and ask them to tell the EP it needs to be added.
he currently has a teaching assistant helping him and not working at all.
He needs a hlta or Lsa. I do need to use the correct terminology do you know if Elsa if hlta or lsa? I have found a website about elsa and it appears you can buy the course which I will and hopefully help me with his homework!
all I have said is I think it would be very beneficial for him to have Elsa trained teacher to help him because he done really well. And it said in the EP report about Elsa.
sorry one more question is Elsa delivered full time at special needs education schools.

Don’t rely on the school. If you haven’t got the contact details of the EP, ask the LA to go back to the EP.

ELSA won’t be delivered full-time anywhere because it is an intervention. The strategies can be put into practice the rest of the time. This applies to all settings. Who delivers it varies, e.g. can be a teacher, HLTA, TA, HLTA. An LSA won’t necessarily be any more experienced or qualified than a TA, and some schools/LAs don’t use the term HLTA even if that is the level they are qualified to. The EHCP needs to say it is more than beneficial to.

The reducing 1:1 over time will be because the outcomes for children who have lots of 1:1 support are generally poorer than for those with similar needs who don’t, especially where the 1:1 is not adequately skilled. It can result in the child becoming more segregated from their peers and dependent on the 1:1 and often results in the child getting all their “teaching” from a relatively untrained 1:1 instead of a highly trained teacher. If DS cannot access the curriculum without massive amounts of 1:1 you may find that a special school is a better bet as he will be in an environment where he is more able to cope and therefore might not need constant 1:1. Getting this is often not easy though.

With the stamping incident it sounds like DS is quite vulnerable socially which would be another reason to push for a specialist school.

The reducing 1:1 over time will be because the outcomes for children who have lots of 1:1 support are generally poorer than for those with similar needs who don’t, especially where the 1:1 is not adequately skilled. It can result in the child becoming more segregated from their peers and dependent on the 1:1 and often results in the child getting all their “teaching” from a relatively untrained 1:1 instead of a highly trained teacher.

That is a problem with how the 1:1 is used. Not a problem with having 1:1 itself. A well trained 1:1 deployed correctly does not cause dependence or result in the 1:1 teaching the child. This is a line LAs like to use to misrepresent the evidence when trying to defend not detailing, specifying and quantifying sufficient 1:1, not because the child doesn’t reasonably require 1:1 but because not having 1:1 fits the LA’s agenda.

Yes, but the OP has already said the 1:1 is untrained/unexperienced etc, and as there is a shortage of 1:1s chances are any replacement will be too. Yes, good 1:1s, even full time ones, add value when deployed effectively by the school, but even they can’t ameliorate an unsuitable environment. Research has shown that unskilled 1:1s are detrimental.

It doesn’t have to continue to be an untrained, inexperienced &/or unskilled 1:1. Training, qualifications and experience can be included in F. It may take an appeal, but is perfectly possible to secure and then enforce.