May I ask what the difference is between 'high functioning autistic' and 'high functioning ASD'

[Twiglett]

I think I assumed that they were part of the same continuum towards the NT side and severely autistic at the other.

But I think I might have been mistaken and think I'd like to understand it better .. if there is an easy answer that is

Yes, I think my ds has sensory and perceptual problems. Some days he looks quite sad that he can't interact, I can see the sadness in his eyes, so he must want to. I usually pick him up and carry him around, this makes him happy.. But often, today for example, when I approache him, he runs away, he has been doing this for a few weeks now. Why would he do that?
I can't talk to him, or be interested in anything he is looking at, in case he runs off again. Do you think his sensory issues are getting worse?

APPROACH

What's your response when he runs away? It's possible he likes your reaction to it.

I think sensory problems can change quickly. DS1 for example loved and adored swings, then overnight became terrified of them. It may be something as simple as a sudden fear in being picked up (depth perception problems??? ds1 is choccablock full of them although they're a lot better than they were).

DS1's official DX is AS/HFA- which rather sums up our APed's attitude to the difference I think! DS3's dx was (a dx for DS3 never seems to al;st more than a month) HFA with Severe SLD.

AS far as I understand it the proper criteria is AS- no language delays; asd- lower IQ and language delays; HFA- average to high IQ, language delays.

But it all varies so very, very much and I am fast elarning that kids don't fit criteria in any easy way.

Oh and BIBIC told us the same, but ds1 has no interest in being like anyone else- he can't see any problems with who he is.

IQ is almost impossible to assess in lower functioning kids anyway. There are a number of people diagnosed with low functioning autism and severe learning difficulties, who, once they've found a way to express themselves and learned some language (usually through typing) have gone onto take college degrees etc. Although they still appear as learning disabled as ever.

Being unable to assess IQ isn't necessarily a disadvantage. Access to lots of adult services depends on having an IQ below 80 (so you come into the learning disabilities team) and other services needs an IQ below 55. So being unmeasureable has its advantages.

Deeja - could the running be made into a game? You know, chase him, catch him and tickle him or does the running seem to be a fear reaction (in which case making it into a game is probably not appropriate).
One of the things I've been learning is to follow the lead of the child with ASD, watch what they want to do and then look for interaction within that.

Ds1, who is more obviously on the spectrum than I am, is more sociable than me. It's on his own terms and he'll usually ignore other children his age unless it's one child on their own and then he'll run round and giggle with them, but he'll approach total strangers who are adults or much older children and sit on their laps, pull at their hair, play with their faces and want them to swing him about the place. In contrast as a young child I hardly went to anyone but my mum, rarely spoke to anyone else when I was tiny and even when I got older I would still frequently talk to adults or older teenagers through my mum. I still talk through my DH to other people, found myself doing it today with FIL and managed to stop myself and redirect to talk to him directly. I don't have a strong urge to mix with other people, I will do so, but I don't feel upset that I don't do so to a large degree.

That sounds like ds1 bullet. He's overfriendly with adults, even ones he doesn't know that well. He likes being around children and watching them, and plays with his brothers now, but he tends to avoid ones his own age.

I don't have a clue where on the spectrum DS2 is

He is severely effected by his extreme rigid & OCD type behaviour & has severe sensory problems, very poor visual perception.
His language although always has been delayed, is improving all the time, his understanding better than his expressive.
In social situations his language is very poor but on a 1 to 1 its OK.
I think he does have an awareness of what is expected/the norm, but his sensory/OCD issues are overpowering, its a constant battle for him & he is controlled by rules in fact he cannot function when he has no rules - take him to the park & he will sit & cry, what do you do in a big field full of grass??? He cannot cope without clear direction.

He has been described as Autistic & with learning disabilities.
But mild/moderate/severe, I just don't know...anyone care to hazard a guess?

moderate No idea really.

CARS tests are good for this (childhoood autism rating scale). Athough they can change as the child grows (DS1 has moved from moderate to severe). The sensory/OCD thing is the same for ds1. It's an utter pain.

Thanks Yurt, I'll take moderate, I'd love him to be described as "average" just once

I think his need for rules is a bit of a double edged sword, on the one hand it makes him extremely compliant, so is not disruptive in school & has reasonable concentration skills.
BUT if you change ANYTHING or leave him without direction he turns in to a mute, arm bitting, sobbing little thing.

the only thing the paed & psych agree on is that he is complex!

Compliance is a good thing though. We're hoping to get ds1 accepted on a pilot program (will post more about it if we do) and compliance is the key indicator for success in this program apparently. DS1 isn't too bad given the severity of his autism, but I just hope it's enough. ABA has really helped there- at least in 'work' situations.

DS2 is compliant if he thinks its appropriate
So if the teacher says X sit on the mat he will sit there all day until told to move, because thats what the teacher told him to do & he hasn't had another instruction.
But if I give him an instruction & it differs from normal, well, its his worst nightmare, he is torn then between doing what he is asked & changing his routine.
He normally ends up a sobbing mess on the floor.

awww

So it's more of a sphere, than a spectrum? ie different things coming off of a central point?

Landscape is sometimes used.

but tbh I (personally) think it's several/many different things lumped together.

I know what I meant when I asked that, but reading it back it makes little sense unless you know the picture I had in my mind

Sorry to come in late again.

IQ is a really dodgy measure of anything.

When I was in uni we came to the conclusion that it was a test to make white middle class men look like they had more of something than everyone else.

As Yurt says IQ's towards the lower end of the spectrum are figures to be viewed doubtfully.

Unless of course it's the very nice man from DLA who is about to use low IQ to give you higher rate DLA.....

Precisely. And always worth remembering if IQ can';t be measured (as in DS1's case) then it's worth stating that it's therefore below 55 = severe mental capacity which in conjunction with higher rate care = higher rate mobility. Thank you.

The only note of caution here.

There are some pretty ancient statutes out there.

So arguing severe mental incapacity to claim exemption from community charge say also makes them legally incapable of consent to anything.

In some cases this might not be an issue for other people it might be.

Oh that's worth remembering (although atm we're a long way from ds1 ever being likely to have capacity for consent).

also of course surely IQ tests would have to be done extremely carefully to avoid massively biasing them against kids with receptive language problems.