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BONKERZ...how's it going?????

47 replies

daisy5678 · 14/03/2008 20:07

any news?

Have been on and off here recently so might have missed it...

OP posts:
bonkerz · 15/03/2008 22:34

givemesleep...thanks for thinking of me. Not seen you about!!!

Still waiting for report....go see physch on Tuesday for that and the wait is killing me. Best case scenario he says DS has autistic traits and makes a diagnosis...worse case scenario is that my son is normal and im a crap parent!

Dss mainstream school have said they cannot have him back. they have looked into what he will require and have been very open about the fact they cannot fund the level of support he needs. Have been again to look at the school nearby with the attached autistic unit. The Unit would be brill if we get a 'severe autistic traits' label but also the MS part of the school is very tolerant and accepting of children like DS so either way i think DS will be going to that school but we cant make decision about unit or MS part till after tuesday.

Also waiting for Tuesdays results in order to file an appeal against the statement. We got 31.5 hours and i was happy until i found out it doesnt mean any extra funding if below 32.5 hours so am appealing against number of hours and also against the 'able to be provided for in mainstream' section as clearly he cannot seeing as 2 MS schools now have failed him.

The PRU unit he is at is finally beginning to accept they are not the best place for him. At his parentsd evening on Firday i was told they were at a loss and very frustrated as he cannot seem to remember the new strategies and rules etc for more than one or two days. His teacher at the PRu said he astounds her daily with his academic work and then he will have a tantrum like a two year old!!!!

At home Ds is giving alot of attitude and answering back BUT we had a lovely day today and i took him swimming on my own with DD which is something i havent been able to do with him for a long time as im worried about safety for him and DD BUt we went to a small pool which is not very deep so i didnt have to hold DD all the time and i also managed to keep DS occupied and ficused so we avoided any problems! Am knackered though cos it was hard work!!!!

Thanks agian for asking....

Hows things with you?

daisy5678 · 16/03/2008 00:19

See the 'my son has completely lost the plot' thread! Not brilliant.

Sounds like life is on hold for you until Tuesday. Even if he's not autistic, you aren't a bad mother. They queried ADHD before, didn't they? So there is SOMETHING not NT about your ds. You know it and the hospital clearly do too. I am sure that they'd have just given you the results if there was nothing to report.

The not remembering rules for long sounds like J. I don't know, I think that the current mainstream school that J is in has been very very tolerant and accepting - no exclusions ever, despite the violent attacks on staff and kids. I have been made very aware by the junion school HT that things won't be tolerated in the same way there, so I have been to see the local EBD primary, which was lovely, but secondary provision round here for ASD kids is either the EBD school, which is dire, or the autism school, which is largely a non-verbal population of pupils. Neither fits J! So I am sticking to mainstream primary in the hope that he will then be able to go to MS secondary with a unit. If he goes to primary special, I don't think there's a hope of him reintegrating into MS secondary. Your unit school sounds great - the perfect compromise.

Let me know about Tuesday! Fingers crossed that you get the result which will lead to the best help for your boy. Whatever happens, he's got a great advocate in you, and you WILL get him the help that he needs.

OP posts:
magso · 16/03/2008 11:17

Hope things go well on Tuesday and it is the beginning of appropriate support for ds and you all. As GMS says your greatest fear (isn't it our constant nightmare and experience )cannot be true. Take care.

flyingmum · 16/03/2008 12:26

Bonkerz - you are not absolutely NOT a bad mother. How anyone could think that I don't know. If a mainstream primary say they cannot cope then that is not down to 'bad mothering' that is down to a specific difficulty.

sleepy - do be aware (cause I wasn't and only discovered these places at the last min)that there are non-maintained and private secondary special schools. Several of whom deal with the cognitively 'normal' ASD child. LEAs keep this very quiet because they are very expensive. You have to fight and will have to go to tribunal BUT they are out there and might be worth a look.

I've seen a few - mainly down the South East neck of the woods let me know if you want names.

All the best.

daisy5678 · 16/03/2008 14:31

Thanks flyingmum - there are just none round here. The autistic school IS private and is one of the best in the country, but they are much less verbal than my son, who does thrive on being with able peers. There are no private high-functioning autism/ AS schools round here (or I would do battle to get J into one) and I don't want him to go to residential school or to move away from here, where our family is (Manchester).

He IS manageable in mainstream - his infant school have moved him on brilliantly, but they have done things that J's psych says she has never known other school be willing to do e.g. use the HT's office as a calm-down/ restraint room and use the HT as a second person with his TA when he needs restraining - sometimes for 45 minutes. That's a high level of commitment, I think. I just hope that the junior school will agree with the head of SEN in the LEA who says that, under the DDA, they can't exclude him and must put similar measures in place when he gets there. Plus the LEA are paying for half-termly outreach support from the autism school and sending in an inclusion specialist weekly when he starts the new school. Plus OT and SALT and Behaviour Support Service support plus 33 hours 1:1 support. I hope that will all help - but yes, am aware that it might not so will have to look at alternative just in case.

OP posts:
bonkerz · 16/03/2008 17:21

Im going off to read your other thread now but i wanted to say thanks for the posts.

I know it cant be bad parenting but until i get an answer it difficult to not blame myslef!
I have actually been given 2 EBm school to look at but both are over an hour away and would mean ds being residential BUT he is only 7 and i wont do that to him!
We do have a priory school nearby which would be fab but right now i dont have the energey or the money to fight to get him in as at 60k a year it will mean fighting hard!
givemesleep: waht oyu describe as your MS school doing for your DS is what my DS needs and it was being done in his MS but they say there is no way they can continue long term and are not prepared to! If they hadnt been so helpfula nd nice i would proabably persue discrimintaion BUT without them we wouldnt be in such a strong postion as we are with LEA to get more help.

bonkerz · 17/03/2008 20:38

got butterflies, feel sick, feel nervous, know im gonna break down completely if he says its ADHD alone. DH not being very supportive ATM. Im going alone to appointment so i know im gonna end up shouting and i know thats not gonna achieve very much. Want to cry right now cos im terrified what tomorrow holds.

daisy5678 · 17/03/2008 22:36

If he says it's ADHD alone, I would actually say that's a good thing. Our psych explained it like this: ADHD alone is very treatable. The medication, though not without side-effects, can be very effective in reducing the impulsivity, frustration, hyperactivity and distractibility. I've certainly seen those things reduce while J was on the medication.

The autism is the shit bit (she didn't use that word, though, obviously!). The autism brings with it all the sensory problems, the need to control, the inability to understand or express feelings effectively, the inability to interact with others instinctively, the obsessions and repetitive behaviours, and medication DOESN'T touch those things at all.

The school have kept saying to the psych at reviews, why is he still so violent on meds? But she has had to keep pointing out that you can't medicate the autism. The meds 'take the edge off' the hyperness and make it easier to focus and to stop and think, but the real difficulty is the autism.

So don't break down if it's ADHD alone. That is a serious but very treatable condition. I wish J had ADHD alone. I get the impression that you feel that an autism dx would offer more validation of your ds's needs, and, of course, open doors for him in terms of the other school, but an ADHD dx would still validate his needs and the other school's main bit sounds very SEN-friendly even if he can't get into the unit without an ASD dx.

Sorry DH isn't helping - probably worried himself, though that's no great comfort to you!

Try to stay calm with the CAMHS team - J's psych is an absolute lifeline and I think they genuinely can be helpful if inclined to be.

Don't cry! At least you will KNOW by this time tomorrow. Thinking of you xxx

OP posts:
magso · 18/03/2008 10:57

Hope all goes well today, thinking of you! Take care!

bonkerz · 18/03/2008 14:26

well DS does not have ADHD nor does he meet all the crieria for a diagnosis of ASD. Apparently DS has SEVERE anixiety issues and emotional porblems. CAMHS reckon his behavioural and social issues all relate to the emotional and axiety issues. DS has been referred on to have a MIM assessment but i dont have a clue what this is and we have also been referred to social services for a 'in need' meeting.
LEA case worker is unsure what to do now as another recommendation made in this report is that DS be taught in a school for EBS children and be in a class of 10 or less children! Does that sound like MS to you??????
Case worker is calling an emergency statemnt review meeting and plans to go back to panel to see if she can get an enhanced funding package to enable DS to move to the new MS school. Feel like shit right now.

dustyeastar · 18/03/2008 14:29

God what a nightmare When ds first had problems at school i considered our nearest EBD school for him. They aren't mainstream and are geared up to helping children with behavioural difficulties. He was too young though as the minimum age was 8 at the time.

bonkerz · 18/03/2008 14:43

i cant look at ebd schools though becasue they are residential and over an hour away and ther is no way im sending my 7 year old to residential school.

magso · 18/03/2008 14:50

Hi Bonkerz! {{}}!
I dont know what an MIM is either. But a class of 10 or less doesn't sound like standard ms to me either. The EBS unit at ds old school had a max of 10 (mixed juniors), and was only for statemented children.
I hope it means your ds gets understanding and appropriate support. {{}}
Looking for the bright side- (I am not knowledgable!!) hopefully it will be treatable once the understanding is in place.

magso · 18/03/2008 14:52

Ps is a dx of asd traits likely and would that let him access the asd unit ?

dustyeastar · 18/03/2008 14:53

Sorry bonkerz i hadn't read all the thread when i posted. i don't blame you for not wanting residential. Ds isn't at an EBD school anyway. I moved him to a different MS where he is doing quite well with fulltime 1:1 support.

deeeja · 18/03/2008 15:45

Bonkers!
((((hugs))))
I have been watching to see what your outcome is, was really hoping you would get the results you wanted.
I know it is hard, but at least this way your ds will get the help he needs.
I don't know what a MIM assessment is either. I agree with magso that maybe a dx of autistic traits might be helpful. I think personally thing that you should maybe get a second opinion.
I hope everything goes well.
Hugs to you and ds.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 18/03/2008 15:53

I am wondering if this is what is meant:-

The Marschak Interaction Method Assessment (MIM), a structured observation technique, is used to evaluate the relationship between a child and his significant caregivers and to assist in planning attachment treatment. The trained assessor observes from behind a one-way mirror while the participants interact with each other. It is used to identify areas of strength and of difficulty and assists in making recommendations for treatment.

Bonkerz

I would also suggest you seek a second opinion.

ancientmiddleagedmum · 18/03/2008 16:30

It sounds to me like they are avoiding giving him a label like ADHD or ASD/Aspergers because then they have to fork out. Both are spectrum disorders so he could be at different levels on each. Attachment and emotional disorder my arse! I agree that you should think about a private diagnosis. We used a lady called Dr Daphne Keen, who does private work but is also very high up in the NHS (at St George's Hospital, Tooting) so they will find it difficult to dispute her credentials. It cost £1000, but if DH has BUPA you can get it on that. Poor you, it is all such hard work and stress. The other fantastic place for diagnosis is the Michael Rutter centre, part of Kings Hospital London. They do a really really thorough diagnosis. Second opinion is definitely needed as I think they are just crap at diagnosing something like aspergers or ADHD when it presents in a way they're not used to. Also, in the US they are way ahead of us in diagnosing things like verbal or motor dyspraxia, where kids have motor planning issues eg in remembering instructions. Big hug!

bonkerz · 18/03/2008 16:51

thanks for that attilla. I dont know what to think TBH.
The report from CAHMS says that from their obs of the family there are good parenting skills and no obvious issues which may be attributing to DSs issues. They have also recommended a referral to family steps which we did over 18 months ago and FS found no issues at home with the way we deal with things but had numerous problems with schools coping mechanisms! We seem to be going around and around in circles and the worst thing is this is report was made after them having 9 hours with DS in total. Apparently they did tests like showing DS a smarties tube and asking whats in it...he said smarties...showed him pencils inside... asked him again whats in it and he said pencils???? Also report says he could show happy and sad using puppets but couldnt demonstrate other emotions. He was not very sociable and preferred to play by himself but they said he was able to move between activities well. They also said he wasnt rigid with his routines because when choosing his lunch he made a point of saying he was going to try something different!....surely that just shows how hard we work to make him more flexible and also bare in mind he was at this place for 3 hours at a time!!!!!
They said he did not have ADHD because his concentration is good although he did get talkative and excited easily and needed to be bought back to task regularly. He showed a problem with executing ideas and instructions had to be broken down into very simplistic terms for him to be able to follow through with them.

Have a emergency meeting with school, pru and lea on 9th to discuss moving DS to other MS school but that can only be done if they award us the enhanced funding package.

Yet again we have to wait for more assessments and meetings.
Im fed up
Im tired
I have had enough
Im not sure how much more i can take.

We dont live in london so i dont know about provate diagnosis. We dont have much money either so would have to take out a loan, may look into it though.

daisy5678 · 18/03/2008 20:45

Oh bonkerz. I really really hoped that, after all the waiting, you'd get an answer, for better or worse.

OK: let's focus on the good stuff (sooooooooooooo easy to say - much harder to do) - they've praised your parenting skills. You were worried it was about you being crap - it's not and you're NOT!

They've also recommended expensive, small class sizes, which you can use to hold the LEA to ransom. Either they provide this enhanced package or you opt for a highly expensive, private residential school (not meaning it, but bluffing, just to focus their purse strings ) - I bet the enhanced package will come quickly then.

And if it doesn't, well, I don't get it. You said "have an emergency meeting with school, pru and lea on 9th to discuss moving DS to other MS school but that can only be done if they award us the enhanced funding package" - who said that this can only be done with enhanced funding? What do they mean by enhanced?

In terms of private dx's, I know that jenk1 is from round here too and she used a private guy BUT the LEA then took a while to accept a private dx, and , as you said, the £££££ needs to be considered. I would ask for CAMHS second opinion first. I would go through the ASD criteria - if you don't have it, ask me, and write a list of reasons why you feel he meets that criteria, if you still feel he does. I know that the NAS can refer you on to private people to dx, but I guess that depends on how strongly you think he meets all the criteria and if you accept what CAMHS have said they found/ didn't find or not. Also, you only have enough energy and time to battle over something you need.

At the moment, the priority has to be getting a school. If he can go to the school you want without a dx (which he can) then that's what the battle right now needs to be. Later, you can go back on the road for a dx if you feel they've got it wrong this time. Did you feel the person giving the feedback 'got' it/ 'got' ds?

Above all, NO BLAMING YOURSELF. Yes, I am shouting at you! It's been a long wait and a big let down, but nobody is blaming you and they have, in fact, been positive about you. I would look at this MIM thing as a way of offering you practical advice on how to support your ds with his issues rather than to assess you to criticise you, iyswim. I know how it sounds though. But, on the bright side, if when you come through that brilliantly, it will give them more reason to consider other causes for the behaviour.

Poor Bonkerz - sending virtual vodka your way xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

OP posts:
bonkerz · 18/03/2008 22:35

thanks givemesleep.

Well i had a bottle of wine and feel chilled but DH has now read the report and it really doesnt make sense how they came up with what they did.
The report recognises that Ds has:
#low self esteem
#need for control
#need for perfection
#unable to identify emotions
#literal thinking
#does not understand sarcasm or figures of speech
#cannot recognise or display other emotions only sad or happy
#prefers to play alone rather than in group
#speaks in loud unusual tone
#gets excited easily
#has poor spatial awareness
#struggles to tie shoelaces/use knife and fork/use pencil
#doesnt understand instructions clearly and needs instructions to be simplistic and clear

These are just a few of the traits they felt needed mentioning and tell me if im wrong but all these things can be descirbed as autistic traits can they not????? Im not saying DS is severe BUT that CAMHS only spent 9 hours with DS and managed to recognise these issues, surely if they spent more time observing him these things would be magnified and added too.

The biggest thing from the report TBH is the foot nots being that CAMHS works for leicestershire county council!!!!!THAT SAYS IT ALL.

Givemesleep any help you can offer me would be brill just so i can build a case.and in answer to your question about the new MS..... The head of the unit/MS would rather have taken DS in the unit but as we dont have diagnosis he will take him into the MS on 32.5 hour statemnt BUT he will need the enhanced funding to enable him to porvide smaller groups and better trained staff and also to develop the time out room and counselling that DS will need. All these extra things DS needs are going to drain his funds and therefore he needs extra to ensure he can meet all DSs needs. Does that make more sense?

daisy5678 · 18/03/2008 23:35

It does...but he can't refuse to take him on that basis, that it will drain his funds.

If you name that school on the Statement in Part 4, stating that it will meet his needs, the LEA will probably agree (it's cheap, it's mainstream, they'll be happy and they can't claim that the previous mainstream could meet his needs as they say they can't and you say they can't!).

By law, the HT would have to then accept your DS unless it was 'incompatible with the efficient education of other pupils'. Now, if he was going to claim that it was incompatible in terms of finance, the LEA would have to sort that out. There is actually a legal precendent which you might want to draw his attention to which says that, if a school chooses not to pay towards the provision in the Statement, the LEA can't make them ... will find link www.ipsea.org.uk/caselaw.htm

(it's the R vs Oxfordshire County Council ex parte Pittick (1995) decision about halfway down)

So the HT could nag LEA into paying more AND you could pressure the LEA to name that school on the Statement so that ds has a school that will meet his needs.

Either way, money cannot be a reason for the HT to refuse your son and it is NOT your responsibility to chase funding. That is the HT's problem, once you have that school named on the Statement. Focus on getting that done. You have enough on your plate without helping the HT do what sounds like non ds-specific alterations to the school in some cases, or even if they're all for his benefit, still not your problem really!

You have to be a little bit selfish here (not even selfish at all actually) and just say, it's not up to you to sort out his finances!

RE: report. I don't know. I'm being honest here! Some of those symptoms do sound ASDish, but I'm no expert or professional. That's CAMHS people's area. 9 hours is actually quite a long observation period. My son was observed for about 6 hours by 1st psych for the ADHD dx and then the autism dx came after the 1 hour ADOS and a couple of informal observation sessions. So not as much time for either dx as they've spent with your ds. I think that they do have quite a bit of time to base their (non) dx on. I'm not saying they're right or wrong, but if you trust them enough to be able to say that they didn't make any glaring mistakes, and they justified their non-dx by referring to the triad of impairments, I don't know what your next step with regards to the dx is. That's really helpful, isn't it

I agree that the LEA thing is a bit suspicious, but would like to believe that medical professionals have enough ethics to do what is best for a child - perhaps blind naivety though!

You asked for info - here is the thing I wrote for family members to 'justify' J's dx to them (I think I used the word explain...was just so bored of being told he was nothing like Rainman so how could he have autism?

WARNING: VERY, VERY LONG!
Autism and what it means for xx.

The criteria below is from The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM)which is a handbook for mental health professionals that lists different categories of mental disorders and the criteria for diagnosing them, according to the publishing organization the American Psychiatric Association. It is used worldwide by clinicians and researchers as well as insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies and policy makers. The writing in brackets describes why the two psychiatrists who have assessed and diagnosed xx have concluded that he has autism. Most of the information they used came from the ADOS test (Autistic Diagnostic Observation Schedule) that is used worldwide to test for autism. It involved an hour where the psychiatrist talked to xx and played games with him to look at his behaviour, social skills and conversation skills. The test is scored out of 22 and the cut off for mild autism is 7. The cut off for autism is 12. xx scored 20, putting him well into the autistic range, and they explained their reasoning with reference to the things described below. Some information that they used came from discussion with me about his early years and development.
Criteria for a diagnosis of autism:

?I) A total of six (or more) items from (A), (B), and (C), with at least two from (A), and one each from (B) and (C)
(A) qualitative impairment in social interaction, as manifested by at least two of the following:

  1. marked impairments in the use of multiple nonverbal behaviours such as eye-to-eye gaze, facial expression, body posture, and gestures to regulate social interaction

(xx does make eye-contact, but it is often only fleeting and is always on his own terms ? he often will not look at a person if they are speaking to him, and will only sometimes look at someone when he speaks to them. His facial expressions are often over-exaggerated or inappropriate e.g. smiling when someone is hurt or looking over-the-top when cross)

  1. failure to develop peer relationships appropriate to developmental level

(xx has always had trouble with children his own age, finding it very difficult to play with them rather than bossing them about. He finds it very hard to make friends as he just wants to control them. He still finds it impossible to share with others.)

  1. a lack of spontaneous seeking to share enjoyment, interests, or achievements with other people, (e.g., by a lack of showing, bringing, or pointing out objects of interest to other people)

(I don?t think he really meets this criteria, but the psychiatrist who did the ADOS test said that he didn?t share enjoyment when playing games with her, but just seemed rather flat about playing the game.)

  1. lack of social or emotional reciprocity

(This is about ?give and take? with another person, so being able to compromise and react to other people?s emotions properly. It was felt that xx is very often only interested in his own needs and wants and so fails to react to others? needs. It was also noted that xx finds it hard to read other people?s emotions unless they are doing something obvious like crying or shouting or laughing. Therefore he can?t tell when he is boring people or annoying people, and so will keep doing what he wants e.g. talking about one topic for far too long, or keep taking their belongings away, as he is focused on himself and not other people.)

(B) qualitative impairments in communication as manifested by at least one of the following:

  1. delay in, or total lack of, the development of spoken language (not accompanied by an attempt to compensate through alternative modes of communication such as gesture or mime)

(this doesn?t really apply to xx, although people found it hard to understand his pronunciation when he was younger)

  1. in individuals with adequate speech, marked impairment in the ability to initiate or sustain a conversation with others

(xx is able to start a conversation with others, but talks at rather than with people, about topics that he wants to talk about. He does not pick up on normal conversational rules e.g. in the ADOS test, the psychiatrist said to him ?I went on holiday last summer?. She would have expected him to say ?where did you go?? and ask questions about it, but xx just said ?Oh. I go on holiday? and did not ask her questions or develop the conversation further. )

  1. stereotyped and repetitive use of language or idiosyncratic language

(It was noted that xx?s language and vocabulary are excellent, but are apparently unusual as he uses very adult words and phrases, a lot of which are copied from parents, teachers, TV, films or books. This is called delayed echolalia (or echoing ? repeating back things he has heard). He will also echo adults when he likes the sound of what they have said. He also uses made-up words sometimes and doesn?t always understand the rules of language e.g. he will talk in a teacher voice to children at school to tell them off. He will also find it hard to instinctively know the right thing to say in certain situations and so has to learn rules/ manners by heart, like learning times tables, rather than knowing what to say. E.g. in the ADOS test, he banged the table against the psychiatrist?s leg by accident. She said that it hurt; he said ?thank you?, when what he meant was ?sorry?. He knew that he was supposed to say something, but forgot what.

  1. lack of varied, spontaneous make-believe play or social imitative play appropriate to developmental level

(xx would play with certain toys when he was little, but usually fixated on one or two toys and would only play with them. He has never really made up games or stories; most of his play has been copying e.g. cleaning/ cooking. At nursery, his behaviour was commented on as he spent most of his time moving furniture around and didn?t really want to play with anything)

(C) restricted repetitive and stereotyped patterns of behaviour, interests and activities, as manifested by at least two of the following:

  1. encompassing preoccupation with one or more stereotyped and restricted patterns of interest that is abnormal either in intensity or focus

(this is the only category that I initially thought that xx had problems with. This bit related to the obsessions that he has had ever since he could crawl ? with plug sockets, light switches and buttons. He will play with these wherever we are ? at Sainsbury?s, he even tries to go behind the tills to play with the buttons. He also has obsessions with watching the same musicals over and over again e.g. Annie, Oliver and with CDs, at the moment, as well as planning for his birthday party, which was all he talked about for most of the month of January! We say ?obsession? because often they are all he can think or talk about.)

  1. apparently inflexible adherence to specific, non-functional routines or rituals

(This is about only wanting to do things in a certain way. In xx?s case, this way is his way! For example, he only likes to take the same routes when we drive somewhere, and will have set routines that he will get upset about if they are not followed. E.g. if we don?t buy his magazine on Tuesdays, he can get very upset. If someone moves his book at school, he will have a tantrum. He will only sit in a certain seat on the sofa. He gets cross if he is not warned about something new or different happening at school. Whenever we go to the hospital, he will move furniture round the room, turn the lights on and off and will open the window. Whenever we go to my parents?, he wants to move the furniture and do a ?show?. He gets very upset if we try to change these routines.)

  1. stereotyped and repetitive motor mannerisms (e.g hand or finger flapping or twisting, or complex whole-body movements)

(He doesn?t do this now, but used to twist his hands as a baby.)

  1. persistent preoccupation with parts of objects

(This relates back again to the obsession with buttons and switches.)

(II) Delays or abnormal functioning in at least one of the following areas, with onset prior to age 3 years:
(A) social interaction
(B) language as used in social communication
(C) symbolic or imaginative play

(A and C are the only ones that really apply before 3 years.)

The DSM further states that: ?Individuals with Autistic Disorder may have a range of behavioral symptoms, including hyperactivity, short attention span, impassivity, aggressiveness, self-injurious behaviors, and, particularly in young children, temper tantrums. They may want to be in control of other people to reduce the anxiety that they feel about a world which seems strange to them.?

(xx has displayed all of these symptoms for a very long time, and because these are not accounted for by poor parenting, diet or learning difficulties, it was decided that these were part of his autistic symptoms.)

OP posts:
daisy5678 · 18/03/2008 23:37

Meant to say - try to sleep, try not to stress...so easy for me to say, I know, but I have been where you have been and a way will be found, even though it's never a steady path.

Focus on what's important: this school place, but also on staying strong (physically and mentally) so that you don't crack and can keep being the amazing parent to your ds that you are. xx

OP posts:
bonkerz · 19/03/2008 14:33

givemesleep: thankyou for your post. I have gone through the list oyu posted and have written how each thing applies to DS. Almost everything i have written is backed up by reports and letters obtained from MS school and nursery to show that i have evidenc to prove these issues are not just occuring at home. Tell me what oyu think.

?I) A total of six (or more) items from (A), (B), and (C), with at least two from (A), and one each from (B) and (C)
(A) qualitative impairment in social interaction, as manifested by at least two of the following:

  1. marked impairments in the use of multiple nonverbal behaviours such as eye-to-eye gaze, facial expression, body posture, and gestures to regulate social interaction

ds does make eye-contact, but it is always on his own terms ? he often will not look at a person if they are speaking to him, and will only sometimes look at someone when he speaks to them. His facial expressions are often over-exaggerated or inappropriate e.g. smiling when someone is hurt or looking over-the-top when cross.

  1. failure to develop peer relationships appropriate to developmental level

ds has always had trouble with children his own age, finding it very difficult to play with them rather than bossing them about. He finds it very hard to make friends as he just wants to control them. He still finds it impossible to share with others. Evidence of this is within his school logs and also his IEPs state he needed extra support in making social connections.

  1. a lack of spontaneous seeking to share enjoyment, interests, or achievements with other people, (e.g., by a lack of showing, bringing, or pointing out objects of interest to other people)

Not sure about this one for DS TBH, he needs to control games and the report says that he preferred to play on his own rather than with the other children.

  1. lack of social or emotional reciprocity

This is about ?give and take? with another person, so being able to compromise and react to other people?s emotions properly. the report states that DS was unable to recognise emotions other than happy and sad. Compromising is something that DS is really struggling with and we have been using fixed choice strategy with him for nearly 2 years now and he still doesn?t understand that what is offered is all he can choose from. This is the same at school.

(B) qualitative impairments in communication as manifested by at least one of the following:

  1. delay in, or total lack of, the development of spoken language (not accompanied by an attempt to compensate through alternative modes of communication such as gesture or mime)

not applicable really to DS although some strange speech patterns were noted in report for example he says ?I do some? and ?won points 6?

  1. in individuals with adequate speech, marked impairment in the ability to initiate or sustain a conversation with others

DS hardly ever initiates conversation and then will talk at rather than with people, about topics that he wants to talk about.

  1. stereotyped and repetitive use of language or idiosyncratic language

Ds?s language and vocabulary are also excellent. He also uses made-up words sometimes and doesn?t always understand the rules of language e.g. he will talk in a teacher voice to children at school to tell them off(I am constantly pulling DS up about his tone and how he talks to me like I am a child etc) the report stated that DS talks in an unusual loud tone! He will also find it hard to instinctively know the right thing to say in certain situations and so has to learn rules/ manners by heart, like learning time?s tables, rather than knowing what to say. DS is constantly needed to be prompted to say please and thankyou and hellp and goodbye and will say very inappropriate things to people which can cause embarrassment!

  1. lack of varied, spontaneous make-believe play or social imitative play appropriate to developmental level

Ds has never really played with toys at all. Even now he likes his PC and his Leapster but doesn?t really play with anything. We have tried lego and trainsets and magnetix but he prefers to play on the pc or write and draw. Imaginative play has never been DSs thing although the report says he did well when they has to make up a story.

(C) restricted repetitive and stereotyped patterns of behaviour, interests and activities, as manifested by at least two of the following:

  1. encompassing preoccupation with one or more stereotyped and restricted patterns of interest that is abnormal either in intensity or focus

Ds gets obsessed by tv programmes and DVDs. He will watch Scooby doo for hours if we let him and his obsessions change every few months. We have had Scooby doo, power rangers, eggheads, lazy town and currently its golden balls. His obsessions are very OTT and if he misses an episode or isn?t home to watch it we can have tantrums for hours after!

  1. apparently inflexible adherence to specific, non-functional routines or rituals

Ds is also a stickler for things done his way (unfortunately we don?t always know what his way is and this can cause problems! Ds has to have same cup, plate, cutlery. He has to eat at certain times or this can create tantrums. He gets dressed in a certain order and will lash out if you change that order. He will also eat his food in certain order.

  1. stereotyped and repetitive motor mannerisms (e.g hand or finger flapping or twisting, or complex whole-body movements)

Ds has a blinking problem. Despite having perfect vision he still blinks ALOT

  1. persistent preoccupation with parts of objects

not sure about this TBH

(II) Delays or abnormal functioning in at least one of the following areas, with onset prior to age 3 years:
(A) social interaction (have report from nursery DS attended from age 2-4 to say he preferred to be in baby room and did not have friends)
(B) language as used in social communication
(C) symbolic or imaginative play (Nursery also pointed out DSs favourite toys were puzzles and he did not join in imaginative play)

The DSM further states that: ?Individuals with Autistic Disorder may have a range of behavioral symptoms, including hyperactivity, short attention span, impassivity, aggressiveness, self-injurious behaviors, and, particularly in young children, temper tantrums. They may want to be in control of other people to reduce the anxiety that they feel about a world which seems strange to them.?

the report recognises DS has a problem keeping on task. One thing that CAMHS NEVER looked into or took into account were the numerous reports form 2 MS schools detailing DSs issues and behavioural problems. His need for control, his rages and the fact that he opened the car door on the A47 screaming he wanted to kill himself and that he self harms when in a rage.

bonkerz · 19/03/2008 14:36

Its all so hard to deal with. Been to a support group today and have been told i may have a good case for re assessment. Apprently i should request that the connor scale test is carried out as this should have been done but hasn't. Im also going to look into private diagnosis but im not sure how likely this will be for us. A lady at the group has also given me the number for a solicitor she used and has said because he has already been involved and won against our LEA it may give the LEA a kick up the bum if they know we are not going to give up and are taking legal advice.